Questions about Astral Projection

[maggot]

Astral Projection is troublesome to say the least. I would appreciate any feedback on these questions, as it is becoming a major pain in our game.

1. If a person under Astral Projection uses a scroll that is duplicated from his original body, is the scroll "back home" gone? (I would say yes, but check next question.)

2. If a person under Astral Projection leaves a duplicated scroll behind in another plane, and then is killed, is the scroll "back home" when he returns? (We had to say "no" because otherwise Astral Projection was the best way to make money: sell item, return home, repeat.)

3. Does a person knocked to -1 hp return home, or do they bleed to -10 and then return? (No idea. We think it should be -10, but with the ruling for #2, that means "knock someone out, grab there stuff, and then kill them" is a very good strategy against AP.)

4. If an AP traveller is killed by the destruction spell, do they return home? (Seems like yes, but also seems like the destruction spell is doing something to the soul to prevent this.)

5. If a person under AP picks up a sword on another plane and is later killed, does the sword return? (Clearly this is no, but it leads into #6.)

6. If a person under AP gets a tattoo on another plane, does it return back with him? (We said no. This is important because of a variant type of magic, but see #7.)

7. If a person under AP drinks a potion with a duration (say bull's strength) and then is killed, is the person "back home" still under the affect? (We said no.)

8. If a person under AP gets a spell cast on them then dies, is the person "back home" still under the affect? (We said no, except for curses.)

9. If a person gets a spell cast on them and then AP, is the effect copied? (Not sure if this is in the spell, IDHMBIFOM, but I would say no, except curses.)

10. Why wasn't this clarified in 3.5? (rhetorical)

Thank you all very much.

 

[Philip]

I cannot provide you with any official answers, but this is the rule of thumb I use, and which helped simplify such questions for me a lot:

Astral Projection is to Summoning like Plane Shift is to Calling type spells (PHB p. 172 & 173). I consider a Summoned creature to be an Astral Projection of a real creature living somewhere on the outer planes, although projection with a very limited duration.

This means that Astrally Projecting form 'temporary' physical bodies when entering other planes. How these are formed is up to you, but I always found the 'ectoplasm' mentioned in the Psionics Handbook a good candidate.

1. If a person under Astral Projection uses a scroll that is duplicated from his original body, is the scroll "back home" gone?

No.

2. If a person under Astral Projection leaves a duplicated scroll behind in another plane, and then is killed, is the scroll "back home" when he returns?

No. Just like summoned creatures, Astral Projections can never 'leave anything behind'. It disappears as soon as they do. You could of course 'con' someone by selling, but if you have the level to cast Astral Projection and resort to this tactic, you are probably chronically short of funds and making power enemies quickly.

3. Does a person knocked to -1 hp return home, or do they bleed to -10 and then return?

Summoned creatures leave when they reach 0 hp, so should Astral Projections.

4. If an AP traveller is killed by the destruction spell, do they return home?

Yes. See 3.

5. If a person under AP picks up a sword on another plane and is later killed, does the sword return?

No. The sword remains where it is.

6. If a person under AP gets a tattoo on another plane, does it return back with him?

No. The Astral Traveler's real body has never been affected. A tattoo is after all just a series of weak knive cuts.

7. If a person under AP drinks a potion with a duration (say bull's strength) and then is killed, is the person "back home" still affected?

As before, no.

8. If a person under AP gets a spell cast on them then dies, is the person "back home" still under the affect?

If the spell affects his mind (soul, spirit): yes. If it affects his physical form: no.

9. If a person gets a spell cast on them and then AP, is the effect copied? (Not sure if this is in the spell, IDHMBIFOM, but I would say no, except curses.)

See 8.

10. Why wasn't this clarified in 3.5? (rhetorical)

No. Err... I mean yes... Whatever

 

[maggot]

I cannot provide you with any official answers, but this is the rule of thumb I use, and which helped simplify such questions for me a lot:

Astral Projection is to Summoning like Plane Shift is to Calling type spells (PHB p. 172 & 173). I consider a Summoned creature to be an Astral Projection of a real creature living somewhere on the outer planes, although projection with a very limited duration.

Thanks for the reply. That is a nice way of looking at it. My concern, however, is for abuse of the spell.

The two major abuses I see both involve item duplication. Being able to use a scroll of wish and then return home to find it intact would lead to horrible abuse, so we are saying any item used during AP is used when you get back.

The other problem is selling stuff on another plane. In an epic plane hopping campaign with AP, this could be a major source of income. (Of course, you would always cast a few greater dispelings on a 1million gp sword before buying it.)

But even more important, the AP travelers won't have any cash to do anything on the other plane. Not any cash they can spend and remain LG. Hmm...

I've changed my mind. I think the items should disappear as soon as they leave your presence. Maybe let them remain for a round to allow arrows to work. But if you want cash on another plane, you are going to have to find a way to get it there outside of AP.

 

[Xavim]

I've changed my mind. I think the items should disappear as soon as they leave your presence. Maybe let them remain for a round to allow arrows to work. But if you want cash on another plane, you are going to have to find a way to get it there outside of AP.

Unfortunately you have now made Disarm open for abuse as it makes any and all items on the AP player extremely vulnerable.

The items should exist aslong as the spell persists.

 

[AuraSeer]

Unfortunately you have now made Disarm open for abuse as it makes any and all items on the AP player extremely vulnerable.

Yes, and the projecting character can suck it up.
Anyone using astral projection in combat is basically immortal. The worst an enemy can do is send him back to his own body, and he can always use another projection to return at full strength. Compared to that benefit, the temporary loss of imaginary items is hardly any disadvantage at all.

 

[Philomel III]

Compared to that benefit, the temporary loss of imaginary items is hardly any disadvantage at all.

Too true. Who can complain when you can't otherwise be harmed. The temporary loss of a sword in a situation such as this doesn't deserve the term "abuse"...

 

[maggot]

Unfortunately you have now made Disarm open for abuse as it makes any and all items on the AP player extremely vulnerable.

OK, how about if items stay around for one minute before fading away. That way the item feature is not an immediate clue that the person is AP'd, and it allows for disarmed characters to retrieve the weapon. But I think if you know someone is AP'd, you just dispel them.

The items should exist aslong as the spell persists.

Sorry, I find this way too easy to abuse. Also hundreds of individual gold pieces could be spent by a AP character on another plane, respent by the original receiptiant, respent again, on so on. Then the AP character returns and all these GPs throughout the world sudden disappear. (Remember AP has no time limit.) Too strange for words.

 

[Xavim]

OK, how about if items stay around for one minute before fading away. That way the item feature is not an immediate clue that the person is AP'd, and it allows for disarmed characters to retrieve the weapon. But I think if you know someone is AP'd, you just dispel them.



Sorry, I find this way too easy to abuse. Also hundreds of individual gold pieces could be spent by a AP character on another plane, respent by the original receiptiant, respent again, on so on. Then the AP character returns and all these GPs throughout the world sudden disappear. (Remember AP has no time limit.) Too strange for words.

How much of a problem is a wizard APing and spending hordes of cash on your campaign? Most PCs I've DM'd have far too many pressing matters to attend to to spend the time needed to pull these tricks off. The easiest counter would be to make all shopkeepers in the planes have glasses that detect magic constantly running. Since the GP the Astral character is spending is only maintained by a spell it would detect. I don't know about you but were I a merchant the last thing I'd want to do is accept magical coinage for my goods. Thus AP characters couldn't buy anything unless they came by cash the good old fashioned way. Also, having a character cheat inter-planar merchants is nothing but a good adventure hook. Nothing like sending some bounty hunters to bring the con artist to multiversal justice.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I cannot provide you with any official answers, but this is the rule of thumb I use, and which helped simplify such questions for me a lot:

Astral Projection is to Summoning like Plane Shift is to Calling type spells (PHB p. 172 & 173). I consider a Summoned creature to be an Astral Projection of a real creature living somewhere on the outer planes, although projection with a very limited duration.

Hi Philip,

I just wanted to say that this is a really cool and clever way of relating astral projection to other spells, and it makes a lot of sense. Good integrity too. I'll certainly use this rationale if my campaign ever reaches those heady heights!

Thanks!

 

[Arravis]

I have The Sage's official answer on this from an email I had sent him a few months after the MotP came out. I do think it's too easily abused though and needs to be changed...

**If I am Astraly Projecting and I come across a color pool leading to the Seven Heavens, or some such, if I step through, I create a new body in that plane (a temp one, until I am no longer projecting). If am Astral Projecting with my ring of protection +1, I have that ring (an astral version of it) in the astral, do I have that ring as well in the Seven Heavens when I step through the pool?**

Yes.

**If so, what happens if the ring is destroyed or if I leave it?**

If the astral copy is destroyed, you lose the copy, but the orginal item
remains unharmed. If you leave the astral copy behind, it exisists until you
exit the plane, then it fades into oblivion.

**Is it in two places physically at once?**

No, but there is the orginal and the astral copy.

**I can understand the "astral" version of it, but I am a bit confused as to what happens when I go to an adjoining plane.**

It functions as an astral copy, just like your body does.