Produce Flame Question

[Kaledor]

This is probably an easy question
(and honestly I surprised that it is the first time that it has come up in my group's game...)


1st level spell Produce Flame.
When you take the standard action to cast the spell, can you then use the spell in the same round as an attack. Our first thought was no. If it takes a standard action to cast, and then a standard action to attack, unless the spell description says you get a free action upon casting, you can't do it in a "regular" round (ie, it's not quickened, no special feats, ...).

Are we missing some FAQ errata or clarification?

 

[Darklone]

Touch Spells in Combat

Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks

Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, the act of casting a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Holding the Charge

If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

You're right, since Produce Flame is neither a touch as well as a ranged touch spell, they screwed up the rules a bit. So you cast it and use it next round.

Yet, it's not as bad as it looks like because you can use Produce Flame several times per round if you have several attacks... it's a thrown weapon after all. Or your monk/druid will love to flurry. It might be argued whether you can use it with TWF, but you can use it with Rapid Shot.

 

[Kaledor]

You're right, since Produce Flame is neither a touch [nor] a ranged touch spell, they screwed up the rules a bit. So you cast it and use it next round.

What if the spellcaster decided to use it's touch spell version in the round that it was cast?
So could the druid in question:
Cast PF and then touch an adjacent enemy in the same round.
OR
Cast PF and then NEXT round throw it at an enemy...

 

[gardengoth]

It doesn't provide a touch spell (for further evidence, see the spell's range of 0ft). It offers two new weapons, one requiring a melee touch attack, the other requiring a ranged touch attack.

Think of it as spending your (spellcasting) standard action to draw a weapon (although this would ofc usually be a move or free action in the case of an actual weapon). If you could cast Quickened Produce Flame, you'd then be able to use it to attack or full attack in the same round you cast it.

 

[Kaledor]

It doesn't provide a touch spell (for further evidence, see the spell's range of 0ft). It offers two new weapons, one requiring a melee touch attack, the other requiring a ranged touch attack.

Thanks.
That's how we had ruled on it at the time. It's just good to have support