Primordial heritage

[Ferghis]

I don't have a solid grasp on primordials, so I'm fishing here for ideas. I'm putting one up here, but I'm not nuts about it.

Benefit: you retain hints of your primordial ancestry. You have resist 5 to lightning, thunder, fire, acid, and vulnerability 5 radiant. You also gain +2 Insight checks opposing an outsider's bluff. Finally, you gain +2 to Endurance checks performed in other planes.

What do you think of it?

What alternatives would you suggest?

 

[circadianwolf]

I like the idea a lot, especially for genasi.

That number of resists for one feat is overpowered. I would suggest making it choose one and take out the radiant vulnerability. (What does radiant have to do with primordials? Usually the domain of undead, isn't it?) I'd also add cold to the list of choices.

On a more fluffy note, "outsider" doesn't exist as a category in 4E. "Elementals" refers to creatures from the Elemental Chaos (and immortals, the Astral Sea, fey, the Feywild, and shadow, the Shadowfell), but there's no universal term for extraplanar life forms.

 

[Ferghis]

That number of resists for one feat is overpowered. I would suggest making it choose one and take out the radiant vulnerability.

Since radiant is one of the more common attack keywords, I was hoping that would help balance out the number of resistances...

What if I lower the resistance amount to 3? maybe increase it to 6 at paragon and 9 at epic?

What does radiant have to do with primordials? Usually the domain of undead, isn't it?

Well, I could be wrong, but I heard that the gods had beaten the primordials in a big fight, so I figured that they had some kind of advantage over them. Since divine = radiant, I figured why not give the primordial heirs a vulnerability to radiant.

I'd also add cold to the list of choices.

I totally forgot about that. Thanks.

On a more fluffy note, "outsider" doesn't exist as a category in 4E. "Elementals" refers to creatures from the Elemental Chaos (and immortals, the Astral Sea, fey, the Feywild, and shadow, the Shadowfell), but there's no universal term for extraplanar life forms.

Hmm. Maybe elementals and immortals would be more appropriate?

 

[the Jester]

Whoa, that's a lot of resistance for one feat.

Even if you drop it to resist 3- I agree with circadianwolf, I'd make it "choose one", but drop the radiant vulnerability.

You might add a note to the effect of, "If you already have vulnerability to the chosen energy type as a racial or class feature, it instead increases by 5." I don't think that would be too bad, and that way a tiefling could really focus its fire resistance (f'rexample).

 

[Ferghis]

How about this?

Benefit: You speak Primordial.

You also gain resist 2 to acid, cold, fire, thunder and lightning damage. This resistance increases to 3 at 11th level and 5 at 21st level.

Further, you gain vulnerability 5 to divine attacks. If you already have vulnerability to divine attacks, it instead increases by 5.

Finally, you gain +2 to Insight checks opposing Bluff checks of immortals and elementals, and +2 to Endurance checks performed in other planes.

The resistance is almost identical to that granted by the Forgeborn Heritage feat (I added thunder), which is limited to Dwarves. That feat also adds an encounter power that boosts damage, and has no disadvantages.

I thought about applying the sentence Jester suggested to the resistance as well, but I'd rather not add to the feat's power.

 

[circadianwolf]

The problem with vulnerability to Radiant or Divine attacks is that while yes, they are very common on PC attacks, almost no monsters have them (especially Divine, which as a power source keyword only shows up on classed NPCs).

 

[Keenberg]

I like what you're doing here.

Idea 1: As a stipulation, this feat must be selected at level one, for the sake of logic.

Idea 2: If you don't like that idea, this could also be a background, but you'd have to tone down the benefits significantly. Backgrounds normally only grant a language, +2 skill bonus, or the option to add a skill to class skills, and sometimes training with a weapon.

Idea 3: Character template. Since the ideas you have in mind alter the race/class build, I think this is a very viable option, but once again it'll take tweaking.

 

[Ferghis]

The problem with vulnerability to Radiant or Divine attacks is that while yes, they are very common on PC attacks, almost no monsters have them (especially Divine, which as a power source keyword only shows up on classed NPCs).

I should have thought of that. Still, since the feat itself is a homebrew feat, it's not much of a stretch that the DM can add the keyword wherever he or she wants, right? Given that, would you still consider it overpowered (which, I beleive, was your main point)?

I like what you're doing here.

Thanks!

Idea 1: As a stipulation, this feat must be selected at level one, for the sake of logic.

Well, I'd require the notion of this feat be incorporated into the original character concept or wherenever it might first become relevant in the game. I don't mind characters taking feats that would play in-game as if they were always there, but the character might have other, more urgent, feats to take before hand. Nonetheless, I'd probably require the feat to be taken before paragon.

Idea 2: If you don't like that idea, this could also be a background, but you'd have to tone down the benefits significantly. Backgrounds normally only grant a language, +2 skill bonus, or the option to add a skill to class skills, and sometimes training with a weapon.

Yeah, it's too potent for a background option. As a background, the character would just speak primordial, but many other creatures can do that.

Idea 3: Character template. Since the ideas you have in mind alter the race/class build, I think this is a very viable option, but once again it'll take tweaking.

I have no idea how to do this. The character I'm playing is a warforged, which is already very specific. The character concept was that they took a piece of a primordial being to create this particular warforged and the others of his series. I'm trying to figure out how to implement this in game terms, if it need be implemented at all.

 

[Keenberg]

Well, I'd require the notion of this feat be incorporated into the original character concept or wherenever it might first become relevant in the game. I don't mind characters taking feats that would play in-game as if they were always there, but the character might have other, more urgent, feats to take before hand. Nonetheless, I'd probably require the feat to be taken before paragon.

Fair enough. I suppose the player could roleplay how their character "taps into" their primordial heritage and unlocks its power. Alternatively it can be assumed that the character pondered/studied/worked hard on unlocking the secrets of their heritage in their free time (extended rests)

Yeah, it's too potent for a background option. As a background, the character would just speak primordial, but many other creatures can do that.

Well they could take primordial and/or one resistance if you want to do the background way. Hell, my warlord character has a background that not only let me train the longbow but gave me a +1 to initiative checks. If WotC can be liberal with backgrounds, so can you!

I have no idea how to do this. The character I'm playing is a warforged, which is already very specific. The character concept was that they took a piece of a primordial being to create this particular warforged and the others of his series. I'm trying to figure out how to implement this in game terms, if it need be implemented at all.

Here's something. Take it and run with it. (And for those of you who may say character templates don't exist in 4e, remember: This is a house rule forum... So what if penalties, while not a 4e thing, are essential to templates?)

PRIMORDIAL TEMPLATE

Size and type: The character gains the primordial subtype. Other types are retained and any subtypes are unchanged. Size is also unchanged
Special qualities: Primordial characters retain all special qualities of the base character and also gain +2 to Endurance checks performed in other planes.
Vulnerabilities: Primordial character gain a vulnerability of 5 to divine attacks. If the base character already has a vulnerability to divine attacks, it increases by 5.
Resistances: You also gain resist 2 to acid, cold, fire, thunder and lightning damage. This resistance increases to 3 at 11th level and 5 at 21st level.
Languages: Primordial characters can speak primordial in addition to the languages of the base character.

As for drawbacks, how about this?

Age: Your chaotic nature as a primordial adversely affects your longevity. Your lifespan decreases by 1d20+5 years. (feel free to change the numbers here, Ferghis)

I can't think of other drawbacks right now, but you can always research primordials for inspiration. Good luck!


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[Ferghis]

First, I'm grateful for the feedback. Thanks.

And for those of you who may say character templates don't exist in 4e, remember: This is a house rule forum... So what if penalties, while not a 4e thing, are essential to templates?

This might be more of an issue for me. I'd rather not inject something completely outside the 4e scheme of things.