Price of Mithril and Adamantine
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Nyeshet
First Post
In the SRD, under Special Materials, under Mithril, it states that - for other items - the cost is 500 gp per pound.
Interestingly enough, it does not list such for adamantine.
Hmm, one pound of gold is 50 gp, which equals 5 pp. So, if you make mithril coins following the core procedure of 50 coins per pound, regardless of weight or size, then 1 pound makes for 10 mithril coins, meaning that one mithril coin is equal to two platinum coins. Does that make Mithril the electrum version of platinum and some other metal?
Of course, this also suggests that it weighs a bit more than its entry would have you think . . . .
Adamantium seems to be about 2 to 5 times costlier (or heavier, which with metals is more or less the same thing due to the core standard for coins) than Mithril. So perhaps simply presume it to be five times more expensive - thus keeping the electrum idea in play.*
* (Electrum is fivefold the value of silver but half the value of gold. Mitrhil seems to be twice the value of platinum but perhaps a fifth the value of adamantine.)
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Of course, the real problem is that adamantine cost seems to be arithmetic (5k, 10k, 15k, etc), whereas mithril cost is based on a power rule (1k, 4k, 9k, etc). The 500 gp per pound is a nice guideline, and I tend to think the cost of an item made of it - whether shield or armor or arms - should be based on this rule instead of a vague price "standard." Thus the dagger and the greatsword made of mithril should have quite different costs, let alone a suit of full plate!
Pperhaps we can extrapolate from the following:
5/01 = 5.000
10/4 = 2.500
15/9 = 1.667
This follows a curve, unfortunately, but if we average the three we get (10 / 4.667 ~ 2).
So, while it is not RAW, it would seem that 1000 gp per pound may be a good baseline for adamantine materials (ie: double mithril costs). That said, just chuck out the costs for weapons, armors, etc made of it and instead base it on the weight of the material (presuming it is composed entirely of the metal, of course).
Interestingly enough, it does not list such for adamantine.
Hmm, one pound of gold is 50 gp, which equals 5 pp. So, if you make mithril coins following the core procedure of 50 coins per pound, regardless of weight or size, then 1 pound makes for 10 mithril coins, meaning that one mithril coin is equal to two platinum coins. Does that make Mithril the electrum version of platinum and some other metal?
Of course, this also suggests that it weighs a bit more than its entry would have you think . . . . Adamantium seems to be about 2 to 5 times costlier (or heavier, which with metals is more or less the same thing due to the core standard for coins) than Mithril. So perhaps simply presume it to be five times more expensive - thus keeping the electrum idea in play.*
* (Electrum is fivefold the value of silver but half the value of gold. Mitrhil seems to be twice the value of platinum but perhaps a fifth the value of adamantine.)
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Of course, the real problem is that adamantine cost seems to be arithmetic (5k, 10k, 15k, etc), whereas mithril cost is based on a power rule (1k, 4k, 9k, etc). The 500 gp per pound is a nice guideline, and I tend to think the cost of an item made of it - whether shield or armor or arms - should be based on this rule instead of a vague price "standard." Thus the dagger and the greatsword made of mithril should have quite different costs, let alone a suit of full plate!
Pperhaps we can extrapolate from the following:
5/01 = 5.000
10/4 = 2.500
15/9 = 1.667
This follows a curve, unfortunately, but if we average the three we get (10 / 4.667 ~ 2).
So, while it is not RAW, it would seem that 1000 gp per pound may be a good baseline for adamantine materials (ie: double mithril costs). That said, just chuck out the costs for weapons, armors, etc made of it and instead base it on the weight of the material (presuming it is composed entirely of the metal, of course).
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frankthedm
First Post
Mithral Cost Modifiers
Light armor +1,000 gp
Medium armor +4,000 gp
Heavy armor +9,000 gp
Shield +1,000 gp
Other items +500 gp/lb.
Remember mithral weighs half as much as it "should" so doubling the "bar value” might be appropriate.
Adamant is less simple. I might go with 750-1500 gp/lb. pound, since wourking it out of bar form might be costly in and of itself...
Adamantine Cost Modifiers
Ammunition +60 gp
Light armor +5,000 gp
Medium armor +10,000 gp
Heavy armor +15,000 gp
Weapon +3,000 gp
Shield +2,000 gp
Light armor +1,000 gp
Medium armor +4,000 gp
Heavy armor +9,000 gp
Shield +1,000 gp
Other items +500 gp/lb.
Remember mithral weighs half as much as it "should" so doubling the "bar value” might be appropriate.
Adamant is less simple. I might go with 750-1500 gp/lb. pound, since wourking it out of bar form might be costly in and of itself...
Adamantine Cost Modifiers
Ammunition +60 gp
Light armor +5,000 gp
Medium armor +10,000 gp
Heavy armor +15,000 gp
Weapon +3,000 gp
Shield +2,000 gp
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At some point I figured that the per-pound of adamantine is the same as platinum: 500gp. Extra cost of adamantine goods is all that labor, labor, labor. Never thought about mithril, but it, too, should be a more difficult material to work. I suggest that a lot of its extra "+500gp per pound" is involved in labor, not in raw material. I don't really have a price for it.
frankthedm
First Post
Time on those items is very high. Fabricate can be risky unless the caster has enough skill to take 10.
[Sblock=Craft]Craft (Int)
Like Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Craft is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Craft skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill.
A Craft skill is specifically focused on creating something. If nothing is created by the endeavor, it probably falls under the heading of a Profession skill.
Check
You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft’s daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)
The basic function of the Craft skill, however, is to allow you to make an item of the appropriate type. The DC depends on the complexity of the item to be created. The DC, your check results, and the price of the item determine how long it takes to make a particular item. The item’s finished price also determines the cost of raw materials.
In some cases, the fabricate spell can be used to achieve the results of a Craft check with no actual check involved. However, you must make an appropriate Craft check when using the spell to make articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
A successful Craft check related to woodworking in conjunction with the casting of the ironwood spell enables you to make wooden items that have the strength of steel.
When casting the spell minor creation, you must succeed on an appropriate Craft check to make a complex item.
All crafts require artisan’s tools to give the best chance of success. If improvised tools are used, the check is made with a -2 circumstance penalty. On the other hand, masterwork artisan’s tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus on the check. [/sblock]
To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.
Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).
Find the DC from the table below.
Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.
Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress you’ve made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces.
If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week.
If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again.
Progress by the Day
You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces.
Creating Masterwork Items
You can make a masterwork item—a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship, not through being magical. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. Note: The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.
[sblock=rest of Craft]
Repairing Items
Generally, you can repair an item by making checks against the same DC that it took to make the item in the first place. The cost of repairing an item is one-fifth of the item’s price.
When you use the Craft skill to make a particular sort of item, the DC for checks involving the creation of that item are typically as given on the following table.
Item Craft Skill Craft DC
You must be a spellcaster to craft any of these items.
Traps have their own rules for construction.
Acid Alchemy1 15
Alchemist’s fire, smokestick, or tindertwig Alchemy1 20
Antitoxin, sunrod, tanglefoot bag, or thunderstone Alchemy1 25
Armor or shield Armorsmithing 10 + AC bonus
Longbow or shortbow Bowmaking 12
Composite longbow or composite shortbow Bowmaking 15
Composite longbow or composite shortbow with high strength rating Bowmaking 15 + (2 × rating)
Crossbow Weaponsmithing 15
Simple melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 12
Martial melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 15
Exotic melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 18
Mechanical trap Trapmaking Varies2
Very simple item (wooden spoon) Varies 5
Typical item (iron pot) Varies 10
High-quality item (bell) Varies 15
Complex or superior item (lock) Varies 20
See also: epic usages of Craft.
Action
Does not apply. Craft checks are made by the day or week (see above).
Try Again
Yes, but each time you miss by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again.
Special
A dwarf has a +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal, because dwarves are especially capable with stonework and metalwork.
A gnome has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because gnomes have sensitive noses.
You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you’ll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each weekly or daily check.
To make an item using Craft (alchemy), you must have alchemical equipment and be a spellcaster. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but alchemical equipment is difficult or impossible to come by in some places. Purchasing and maintaining an alchemist’s lab grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because you have the perfect tools for the job, but it does not affect the cost of any items made using the skill.
Synergy
If you have 5 ranks in a Craft skill, you get a +2 bonus on Appraise checks related to items made with that Craft skill.[/Sblock]
[Sblock=Craft]Craft (Int)
Like Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Craft is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Craft skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill.
A Craft skill is specifically focused on creating something. If nothing is created by the endeavor, it probably falls under the heading of a Profession skill.
Check
You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft’s daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)
The basic function of the Craft skill, however, is to allow you to make an item of the appropriate type. The DC depends on the complexity of the item to be created. The DC, your check results, and the price of the item determine how long it takes to make a particular item. The item’s finished price also determines the cost of raw materials.
In some cases, the fabricate spell can be used to achieve the results of a Craft check with no actual check involved. However, you must make an appropriate Craft check when using the spell to make articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
A successful Craft check related to woodworking in conjunction with the casting of the ironwood spell enables you to make wooden items that have the strength of steel.
When casting the spell minor creation, you must succeed on an appropriate Craft check to make a complex item.
All crafts require artisan’s tools to give the best chance of success. If improvised tools are used, the check is made with a -2 circumstance penalty. On the other hand, masterwork artisan’s tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus on the check. [/sblock]
To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.
Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).
Find the DC from the table below.
Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.
Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress you’ve made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces.
If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week.
If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again.
Progress by the Day
You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces.
Creating Masterwork Items
You can make a masterwork item—a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship, not through being magical. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. Note: The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.
[sblock=rest of Craft]
Repairing Items
Generally, you can repair an item by making checks against the same DC that it took to make the item in the first place. The cost of repairing an item is one-fifth of the item’s price.
When you use the Craft skill to make a particular sort of item, the DC for checks involving the creation of that item are typically as given on the following table.
Item Craft Skill Craft DC
You must be a spellcaster to craft any of these items.
Traps have their own rules for construction.
Acid Alchemy1 15
Alchemist’s fire, smokestick, or tindertwig Alchemy1 20
Antitoxin, sunrod, tanglefoot bag, or thunderstone Alchemy1 25
Armor or shield Armorsmithing 10 + AC bonus
Longbow or shortbow Bowmaking 12
Composite longbow or composite shortbow Bowmaking 15
Composite longbow or composite shortbow with high strength rating Bowmaking 15 + (2 × rating)
Crossbow Weaponsmithing 15
Simple melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 12
Martial melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 15
Exotic melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 18
Mechanical trap Trapmaking Varies2
Very simple item (wooden spoon) Varies 5
Typical item (iron pot) Varies 10
High-quality item (bell) Varies 15
Complex or superior item (lock) Varies 20
See also: epic usages of Craft.
Action
Does not apply. Craft checks are made by the day or week (see above).
Try Again
Yes, but each time you miss by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again.
Special
A dwarf has a +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal, because dwarves are especially capable with stonework and metalwork.
A gnome has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because gnomes have sensitive noses.
You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you’ll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each weekly or daily check.
To make an item using Craft (alchemy), you must have alchemical equipment and be a spellcaster. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but alchemical equipment is difficult or impossible to come by in some places. Purchasing and maintaining an alchemist’s lab grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because you have the perfect tools for the job, but it does not affect the cost of any items made using the skill.
Synergy
If you have 5 ranks in a Craft skill, you get a +2 bonus on Appraise checks related to items made with that Craft skill.[/Sblock]
Nyeshet
First Post
The problem with using the Tolkien referrence for this question is the source of some of the other materials. Originally - in 3e and all prior editions, and in legends / myths - it was Silver, not some unusual / rare / etc alchemical silver - that harmed lycanthropes and some other creatures. Similarly it was iron shaped without a forge's heat (ie: by simple pounding without first softening in a forge) that was 'Cold Iron' and dangerous to fae - not some rare / unusual other substance called 'Cold Iron' that is used in core 3.5 d20.
I don't recall if RAW mentions mithril as easy to work, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did not or mentioned the opposite. D&D makes its own rules, completely oblivious to realism, mythic source material, legends and lore of the past, etc. The newly revised Ogre Mage should be proof enough of that.
In any case, mithril is being treated as a rare silvery colored material that is harder yet lighter - so I would not be surprised if it turned out that it was harder to work in RAW. And even if it is not, the fact remains that items cost 500 gp per pound if made with it.
I don't recall if RAW mentions mithril as easy to work, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did not or mentioned the opposite. D&D makes its own rules, completely oblivious to realism, mythic source material, legends and lore of the past, etc. The newly revised Ogre Mage should be proof enough of that.
In any case, mithril is being treated as a rare silvery colored material that is harder yet lighter - so I would not be surprised if it turned out that it was harder to work in RAW. And even if it is not, the fact remains that items cost 500 gp per pound if made with it.
Twowolves
Explorer
While not an "official" source, the Mother of All Encounter Tables has in it's entries for random caravan encounters a table for the value of trade goods. In this table it lists the price for Mithril at 500gp/lb (as in the DMG) and Adamantine at 800gp/lb.
I recently concluded an adventure in which forge bars of various rare metals were part of the treasure, and I used these values for the 10lbs bars to be found.
I recently concluded an adventure in which forge bars of various rare metals were part of the treasure, and I used these values for the 10lbs bars to be found.
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