Potions of Resistance - bad for the game?

[CapnZapp]

The problem is discussed elsewhere. Here is the thread for solutions!

Suggestions...
1) Ban potions outright
2) Make them exotic (players can't buy or create them)
3) Increase their price

Myself I'm inclined to view the idea that a high level potion should grant a higher resistance as fundamentally flawed.

Resistance 5 might not stop as much of the incoming damage at Epic level as it does at Heroic. But at Epic level you have a truckload of hit points and several mind-boggling tricks up your sleeve.

I am postulating that resistance 5 is about as (very) valuable at Epic level as it is at Heroic level. This makes the Adventurer's Vault potions egregious errors in my book.

4) Instead, a Potion of Resistance should always grant resistance 5. The (much) higher price at Epic level should instead be motivated by it granting Epic Resistance, while the heroic potion only granting Heroic Resistance.

In other words, the level 4 potion grants resistance 5 that is effective only against monsters of levels 1-10. The level 14 potion grants resistance 5 that is effective only against monsters of levels 1-20. And the level 24 potion grants resistance 5 that is effective against all monsters (or possibly only the ones below level 31, if you feel nasty as a DM).

 

[Psikus]

I recently discussed the subject of resistances from a more generic point of view, but the solutions I proposed could also apply here. My house rule consists on limiting resistances (of any kind) so that they can never prevent more than half the damage dealt by the original attack.

This way, ongoing damage remains relevant, and you will never be able to completely ignore an enemy based on a single energy type. Resistance should still be a very strong mechanic, but it would no longer trivialize encounters.

 

[Eric Finley]

I use the same solution Psikus proposes, except that I cap it only for ongoing damage, aura damage, terrain damage, and anything else that I assess as a "source of multiple small hurts". Up-front attacks can be soaked outright. [This lets our fire genasi still feel heroic striding toward fire beetles etc.] Works because an actual attack roll will seldom do direct damage that is so low that it risks being neutralized by resistance. It's all the other little ablatives that are a problem.

 

[keterys]

Honestly, I'd suggest something like resistance 2 per tier for the potions as the simplest solution. Well, after just banning them, which also totally works.

Course, I'd suggest the same thing for all the other items too. Black Iron at resist 2. Deathcut at resist 2. Etc.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Honestly, I'd suggest something like resistance 2 per tier for the potions as the simplest solution. Well, after just banning them, which also totally works.

Course, I'd suggest the same thing for all the other items too. Black Iron at resist 2. Deathcut at resist 2. Etc.

How much of a problem really are non-consumable resistance granting items? Wearing armor that grants resistance is occupying a spot you could and should use for a better item. Obviously if the resistance granting item is the best thing going, then OK its an overpowered item, but that's true of ANY item of any description.

The horrible part about resistance potions is threefold. They are cheap, they don't occupy a slot, and you can easily tailor the effect to a specific situation by having different ones available. Other items are just MUCH less of a problem, though an item that takes no slot and grants resistance would be more of an issue than armor etc.

The main thing that bothers me about resistance potions though is really the fact that you aren't locked into one energy type. Unless the DM basically throws monsters at you that can constantly switch in the middle of a battle or have alternative types of equally good attacks (or just do all untyped damage all the time) SOME potion is going to nerf part of any given encounter. Reducing the resistance value to 2/4/6 or whatever reduces the problem but doesn't really make it go away.

I kind of like the idea of just saying you can make a resistance potion of ANY level equal or less than your own, but they never work on stuff above that level. The breaks in amount of resistance are still there (or not, perhaps 5 is all you get) but it means epic characters can't walk around gulping heroic level (IE free) potions and getting anything meaningful out of it. Now you want to have an edge against that Ancient Red Dragon? Sorry, you'll need a level 30 fire resist potion for that, a non-trivial cost. Maybe not even worth it if its still 5 points of resistance.

Luckily my players have managed to overlook resistance potions so far, so I haven't actually had any problems (shhhhhh, don't tell them).

 

[keterys]

How much of a problem really are non-consumable resistance granting items?

When they completely remove the threat of ongoing damage, aura damage, minion damage, and halve or third normal damage?

Pretty big.

Wearing armor that grants resistance is occupying a spot you could and should use for a better item. Obviously if the resistance granting item is the best thing going, then OK its an overpowered item, but that's true of ANY item of any description.

Yep. And yet, Deathcut armor and Cloaks of Survival, nonetheless.

Reducing the resistance value to 2/4/6 or whatever reduces the problem but doesn't really make it go away.

Since they cost a surge, it's much easier to make the damage absorbed become equivalent to a surge. And 2 per tier is less than the damage done by almost all auras, ongoing damage, and minions. Sure, there's still some aura 5 and ongoing 5 at epic, but I think I'm okay with the epic potion that costs a real amount of gold and a surge blocking 20-40 damage that way.

 

[Neuroglyph]

I don't think that it's a big deal as everyone seems to think it is. Potions of Resistence are specified by energy type upon creation and you can't have more than one at a time active - and they don't stack with other resistences.

If you have the red dragon mincing about a room filled with lava pits and knocking characters into pens filled with fire beetles, then yeah, you're going to be a bit thwarted as a DM if the party stocked up on Potions of Resistence (Fire).

So get creative and build the encounter with multiple energy types. It's just a change of the descriptor - it'll end up being more challenging and fun that way.

 

[keterys]

Isn't a red dragon in a room filled with lava pits pretty iconic and worth working? Or green dragons and black dragons wherever you put them.

It's quite easy to have multiple resistances covered. The two items I mentioned earlier cover four of the most common: necrotic, poison, fire, and cold, leaving the occasional potion to shore up a gap otherwise (like psychic), but potions are most powerful when doing things like going up against a dragon, devil, undead, etc.

The real question is... what do the potions actually add to the game? I'm not really seeing fun on the Pro list, and I am seeing screwing up encounters on the Con list.

 

[Neuroglyph]

Isn't a red dragon in a room filled with lava pits pretty iconic and worth working? Or green dragons and black dragons wherever you put them.

Absolutely iconic - but with respect, it also means its cliche.

So keep the lava pits and add fumeroles that do a Burst 2 Poison Gas at various points around the room between the pits. Add trembling sections of the room that are not only Difficult Terrain for any non-large creature to traverse, but have falling rocks that pelt the Characters in that area with physical damage. Volcanic geysers may do not only throw scalding water (fire) but may be filled with sulphurous fumes (poison) and be corrosive (acid).

We're DMs - we make the world, we know the Characters resources, so we should have no problem playing to their occasional weaknesses to create a challenge.

 

[keterys]

Indeed, there are all kinds of things you can do to counteract this item.

Or not allow it, or nerf it. That works too.

It is not uncommon for damages to drop by 80% (ie, 5 guys turn into 1 guy) with level appropriate resistance, on many monsters. On others they just drop by half or so. On some minions it just completely neuters them. Either way, it actively makes monsters more boring.

I found the potions of resistance annoying until I started running numbers on damage for monsters. Then I was actually horrified by the impact.