Potion of Healing/Vitality/Recovery

KarinsDad

Adventurer
I didn't see this listed anywhere else.


I decided to play mostly by the rules in 4E, but something jumped out at me.

A Potion of Healing is 5th level, costs 50 GP, and does 10 points of healing with a Healing Surge instead of the normal amount.

While this sounds good at first level, it would seem that by 5th level when this item can be made, it doesn't do that much. At higher levels, it actually does less healing than a normal Healing Surge.

For example, level 1 Wizard has maybe 12 hit points. Going from 3 hits to 10 hits with a Healing Surge is real decent. But at 9th level, said Wizard has maybe 44 hit points and a Healing Surge does 11 hit points instead of 10 of the potion.

On the other end of the scale, the Fighter might have 18 hit points at first level and at level 6, 48 hits. So, shorty after the party can Brew its own Heal Potions, they no longer help the Fighter as much as most other forms of healing.

Sure, it's a Minor Action instead of a Standard Action like Second Wind, but huh?

Yes, I understand that a mid to high level, the Bloodied Fighter at 2 points below Bloodied can use a Minor Action and a Potion of Healing to get out of Bloodied without using up a Standard Action. So, there are some fairly rare cases at higher level where a Potion of Healing might still help out.

But as levels advance, so do the other feats/powers/items that allow PCs to heal.


It's just weird that a Potion of Healing that costs money heals the body more than other Healing Surges at low level, but less than a Healing Surges at high level. I just think that magical items that PCs purchase or craft should work better (not stronger, better). JMO.


On top of that, the Potions of Vitality and Recovery are SUPER SUPER expensive for little gain.


I think I might houserule these Potions to not use Healing Surges. This way, they become useful at all levels. Still more useful at lower levels, but a handful of cheap potions can still be real helpful at higher levels. It also adds back into the game system a little bit of resource management. Use up a Healing Surge, or use up a Potion. Both have pros and cons.

Another alternative is to just add the 25% of a normal Healing Surge to the potion gain. But, this alternative sounds a bit too powerful since it puts a Minor Action Second Wind (without using up a Second Wind use) into a Potion bottle.
 
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KarinsDad said:
For example, level 1 Wizard has maybe 12 hit points. Going from 3 hits to 10 hits with a Healing Surge is real decent. But at 9th level, said Wizard has maybe 44 hit points and a Healing Surge does 11 hit points instead of 10 of the potion.

On the other end of the scale, the Fighter might have 18 hit points at first level and at level 6, 48 hits. So, shorty after the party can Brew its own Heal Potions, they no longer help the Fighter as much as most other forms of healing.
First of all, your sample characters seem to be rather infirm.

A level 1 Wizard (with Con 10) would have 20 hp and that would increase to 52 at level 9. A level 1 Fighter (with Con 15) would have 30 hp and that would increase to 65 at level 6.

KarinsDad said:
Sure, it's a Minor Action instead of a Standard Action like Second Wind, but huh?

Yes, I understand that a mid to high level, the Bloodied Fighter at 2 points below Bloodied can use a Minor Action and a Potion of Healing to get out of Bloodied without using up a Standard Action. So, there are some fairly rare cases at higher level where a Potion of Healing might still help out.
You're missing one important thing: You only have one Second Wind per encounter.

Yes, the potions use up your daily healing resources, but they give you access to more healing during a fight. It's not whether they give you the same number of hit points as a normal healing surge, but the fact that you actually get to spend another during the fight... and with just a minor action at that.

It's like paying twice the normal price for food inside Disneyland. When your kids are hungry, saying "we get better value for money if we don't eat until we get home" won't save your parental hide.
 

KarinsDad said:
For example, level 1 Wizard has maybe 12 hit points.....On the other end of the scale, the Fighter might have 18 hit points at first level...
This is off topic, but I think HP at first level add the character's Con score, not the character's Con bonus. So a wizard with a Con of 14 would have 24 HP rather than 12 and the fighter with a Con of 16 would have 31 HP rather than 18.
 

mhall67 said:
This is off topic, but I think HP at first level add the character's Con score, not the character's Con bonus. So a wizard with a Con of 14 would have 24 HP rather than 12 and the fighter with a Con of 16 would have 31 HP rather than 18.

Yup. I missed that.

That makes Potion of Healing even less useful.

Thanks.
 

Oldtimer said:
You're missing one important thing: You only have one Second Wind per encounter.

Yes, the potions use up your daily healing resources, but they give you access to more healing during a fight. It's not whether they give you the same number of hit points as a normal healing surge, but the fact that you actually get to spend another during the fight... and with just a minor action at that.

I can buy this argument, especially if there is not a Cleric in the group.

But, it still does not explain why Potions of Vitality and Recovery are SO expensive.
 

KarinsDad said:
Yup. I missed that.

That makes Potion of Healing even less useful.

Thanks.

Not really. If the cleric or the warlord have spent their healing powers and you have used your second wind, you may be sitting at 7 healing surges that you can not use. Healing potions may be crucial there.
 

Cirex said:
Not really. If the cleric or the warlord have spent their healing powers and you have used your second wind, you may be sitting at 7 healing surges that you can not use. Healing potions may be crucial there.

Sure, at low level.

But, not so much at high level. At high level, I suspect that the "healers" have a lot of ways to heal and even the non-healers have a few. Running out of healing at high level might be almost non-existent.

Even if this were not true, than having to use Potions of Healing at high level because everyone ran out of other options would probably require the high level PCs to carry around a lot of Potions. At 10 points per shot, the 20th level Fighter with 145+ hit points would have to suck down a lot of them to make a real difference.
 

Quick and easy house rule:

Have the Potion of Healing do 10+character level
Vitality do 25+ 1/2 level plus other benefit.
Recovery remains the same.

The potions are "cheap" for their respective "tiers". And really there should be no "epic" characters having a potion of healing with them, the vitality would be the minimum...

Even the above can make them better than a healing surge for the soft classes.

Really I think they are fine as written, about the time they become pointless is when the next "tier" of potions enter the treasure matrix.
 

KarinsDad said:
I can buy this argument, especially if there is not a Cleric in the group.

But, it still does not explain why Potions of Vitality and Recovery are SO expensive.
Even with a single cleric in a group of five there are only two Healing Words to go around. You might be lucky to get one of those each fight, but a Healing Potion will let you use a third healing surge (one for Second Wind and one for Healing Word). That's 50% more healing available.

Yes, a Vitality Potion is 1000 gp, but it's Paragon level. It gives you 25 hps for a single healing surge, which probably is your surge value at level 11 as a fighter, but it also gives you an extra save. Paragon level monsters can be expected to have an increasing number of nasty ongoing effects you want to remove as soon as possible.

I haven't played Paragon level yet, though, so I don't know if it's good value for my gold.
 

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