Please rate Twin Spell

[smetzger]

Twin Spell [Metamagic]
REQ: Any other metamagic feat

Casting a spell altered by this feat causes the spell to take effect twice on the target, as if you were simultaneously casting the same spell two times on the same location or target. Any variables in the spell (cuch as targets, shaping an area, and so on) apply to both of the resulting spells. The target suffers all the effects of both spells individually and receives a saving throw for each (if applicable). In some cases, failure of both the target’s saving throws results in redundant effects, such as a twinned charm person, although any ally of the target would have to succeed at two dispell attempts in order to free the target from the charm. As with other metamagic feats, twinning a spell does not affect its vulnerability to counterspelling. A twinned spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spells actual level. Tome and Blood, pg 42.

p.s. Lets assume we are playing with the 3.5e Haste rules.

 

[Darklone]

I voted of Limited Use because a twinned Charm Person would rather often be easier to resist than a Heightened Charm Person... And guys with smackdown DCs for spells don't need it either.

Damage spells: No big deal either. For four levels higher I should easily find a better spell with more damage.

 

[LokiDR]

I voted of Limited Use because a twinned Charm Person would rather often be easier to resist than a Heightened Charm Person... And guys with smackdown DCs for spells don't need it either.

Damage spells: No big deal either. For four levels higher I should easily find a better spell with more damage.

Please show me a 7th level damaging spell that does 20d6 at level 13 caster. Please show me a 5th level spell that does 10d4+10 that never misses at level 9 caster.

I don't think it is weak. It has a lot of the same reasoning as Quicken, so many opinions of that feat should apply here. Lacking 3.0 haste (and any sort of greater haste), quicken looks a lot nicer. Between quicken and twin, you can still get off 3 spells in a round, but all of them are much lower than the maximum you can cast.

I voted average. A bit weaker than quicken perhaps, but still of decent use.

 

[Stalker0]

The fact that it effects the same area twice makes it weak imo. The big advantage of the spell, is your trading higher level slots for more spells, but considering it has to be teh same spell, and the same area or target, I think it should have been only +3 level.

As a +4, its below average imo.

 

[Pax]

I voted of Limited Use because a twinned Charm Person would rather often be easier to resist than a Heightened Charm Person... And guys with smackdown DCs for spells don't need it either.

Damage spells: No big deal either. For four levels higher I should easily find a better spell with more damage.

Says you.

Once you have smackish DCs, the only thing you really worry about is someone rolling a natural 20, even without Heighten. For example, I have a character in an Epic arena on RPOL.

He's an Enchanter Red Wizard; he has a 9th level slot occupied by Twin Hold Monster. With a save DC of 44 for 5th level spells, most foes won't succeed on less than a natural 20 already.

So Twin is better than Heighten (+4), by a long way -- if they can't make a DC44 roll with less than a natural 20, then a DC 48 is no different.

But TWO rolls against 44, makes it highly likely at least ONE roll will not be a natural 20.

And that's just one angle that makes Twin Spell an expensive but, IMO, worthwhile metamagick feat -- which is why I just voted fairly high, at 9.

 

[Ysgarran]

How would this feat work in the case of an 'Arcane trickster'.

Would the arcane trickster get to 'double' the sneak attack damage or would it be considered akin to throw shiriken? (i.e. sneak attack damage is only added once)

later,
Ysgarran.

 

[Number47]

I think in many cases it would be better than Quicken. With Quicken you could cast, say, a Quickened magic missile for a fifth level slot and cast maybe another fifth level spell. This spell lets you still get off two spells, both magic missiles, at the same target but you've only used up one fifth level slot. Makes a lot of sense for someone trying to conserve their high-level slots as opposed to Quickening which really blows through them fast.

Mind you, though, there aren't a lot of spells I would Twin. Twinned area dispel magics would be cool, though.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Please show me a 7th level damaging spell that does 20d6 at level 13 caster. Please show me a 5th level spell that does 10d4+10 that never misses at level 9 caster.

I don't think it is weak. It has a lot of the same reasoning as Quicken, so many opinions of that feat should apply here. Lacking 3.0 haste (and any sort of greater haste), quicken looks a lot nicer. Between quicken and twin, you can still get off 3 spells in a round, but all of them are much lower than the maximum you can cast.

I voted average. A bit weaker than quicken perhaps, but still of decent use.

A doubly Empowered Fireball does 20d6 as a 7th level spell. A Maximized Magic Missle is 4th level and does 25 points of damage, a fair comparison to your Twinned MM (~35 damage). Of course, Empower works here too.

Twinning is very weak and inflexible when applied to damaging spells. IMHO, it is only useful when used for other effects, say, Twinned Bestow Curse or Twinned Enervation. Even those options are more stylish that actually efficient.

Twinning suffers from being a feat that is only useful in combat or similar life & death situations, while lacking the flexibility of Empower or Quicken.

I give it a '3'.

 

[Number47]

Well, a sorceror can Twin a spell that he cannot Quicken.

 

[LokiDR]

Ok, Ridley's Cohort makes a good case for empower being as powerful and a lot more flexible. I see empower as one of the best metamagic feats though.

2d4 negative levels as a 7th level spell is still pretty good. Perhaps I would make +3 if I was redesigning it. Still useful though.