Please Explain Mounted Rules and Combat

[Aluvial]

I am having trouble, as the DM, getting a handle on the Ride rules, controling mounts, Handle Animal, Mounted Combat, etc. during the game.

UPDATE: See my post #11 for my solutions to the below problems...

Here was my situation. The party is riding light horses. Ghasts spring up at the group. No surprise, the ghasts close some of the distance, but not quite all of the way, some of the party dismounts, the spell casters use the horses to move away and cast spells from horseback.

My question is this, what exactly do I need to ask my players to roll for in this situation?

They are casting combat spells while riding light horses. These are offensive, loud, whistling, crackling, sonic blast spells and the like.

Shouldn't they have to roll to control their mounts in battle? What if one of them was a Small character, who rode double behind a fighter type on a Medium light horse. I see there is a -5 for that.... maybe?

Can Small character ride Medium mounts without checks?

Anyhow, any advice on this would be appreciated.

Aluvial

 

[Plane Sailing]

moved it for you.

 

[irdeggman]

Check pg 157 pf the PHB

SRD version:

MOUNTED COMBAT
Horses in Combat: Warhorses and warponies can serve readily as combat steeds. Light horses, ponies, and heavy horses, however, are frightened by combat. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a horse. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full round action and you can’t do anything else until your next turn.

Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount’s space during combat.

Combat while Mounted: With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).

You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally

Casting Spells while Mounted: You can cast a spell normally if your mount moves up to a normal move (its speed) either before or after you cast. If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you’re casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a Concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running (quadruple speed), you can cast a spell when your mount has moved up to twice its speed, but your Concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level).

If Your Mount Falls in Battle: If your mount falls, you have to succeed on a DC 15 Ride check to make a soft fall and take no damage. If the check fails, you take 1d6 points of damage.

If You Are Dropped: If you are knocked unconscious, you have a 50% chance to stay in the saddle (or 75% if you’re in a military saddle). Otherwise you fall and take 1d6 points of damage.

Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat.

There is no distinction on whether or not you need to make a ride chack based on the rider's size versus the mount's size - so the default is that you always need to make a ride check. Note that intelligent mounts are an entirely different situation.


Also note equipment modifiers to the ride skill check:

Special: If you are riding bareback, you take a –5 penalty on Ride checks.
If your mount has a military saddle you get a +2 circumstance bonus on Ride checks related to staying in the saddle.

The Ride skill is a prerequisite for the feats Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample.

If you have the Animal Affinity feat, you get a +2 bonus on Ride checks.

Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Handle Animal, you get a +2 bonus on Ride checks.

 

[Aluvial]

1)But what constitutes combat? Anything under the realm where initiative has been rolled?
2)How far away from specific creatures do you need to be before you can really control your horse without checks?
3)If you control your horse once, and move away, do you need to make a second check the next round if you left the other combatants behind and continue to flee?
4)I would consider a large mount to be an unusual mount for small characters... I know it's not in the rules, but this makes some sense...
5)Anything else?

Aluvial

 

[moritheil]

1)But what constitutes combat? Anything under the realm where initiative has been rolled?

You, as a DM, decide when there is and is not combat. As you are starting to realize, declaring when combat occurs has several implications.

 

[Aluvial]

You, as a DM, decide when there is and is not combat. As you are starting to realize, declaring when combat occurs has several implications.

I have been the DM for so long, at least 17 years, that I start to trust in the rules too much. Common sense should prevail, but my players have a way of using the rules in the book too frequently... the modifiers are getting to me...

Anyhow, within the mounted combat realm, I am going to have to apply the KISS method...

Aluvial

 

[moritheil]

I have been the DM for so long, at least 17 years, that I start to trust in the rules too much. Common sense should prevail, but my players have a way of using the rules in the book too frequently... the modifiers are getting to me...

Anyhow, within the mounted combat realm, I am going to have to apply the KISS method...

Aluvial

Before that, sit down and talk to your players. "Common sense should prevail" is not a method that all groups use (largely because common sense does not mean the same thing to all people), and if your players are pulling a lot of rules literalisms it may not be what they want in a game.

For example, the "common sense" of the writers in my group does not take issue with the idea of fireball not causing pressure changes, but the "common sense" of the engineers and scientists objects strenuously. They have been dealing with thermodynamics so long that it just seems intuitively wrong to them. A lot of discussions can be forestalled by establishing exactly whose common sense will be used or that strict RAW will be used.

 

[Aluvial]

Before that, sit down and talk to your players. "Common sense should prevail" is not a method that all groups use (largely because common sense does not mean the same thing to all people), and if your players are pulling a lot of rules literalisms it may not be what they want in a game.

For example, the "common sense" of the writers in my group does not take issue with the idea of fireball not causing pressure changes, but the "common sense" of the engineers and scientists objects strenuously. They have been dealing with thermodynamics so long that it just seems intuitively wrong to them. A lot of discussions can be forestalled by establishing exactly whose common sense will be used or that strict RAW will be used.

Arrrg... I have a Biologist, an Architect, an Engineer, a Social Worker, a Pilot, and thankfully (God bless her) a Waitress in our game. Reality is a pain.

I can't tell you how many times reality has reared its ugly head into our sessions... Anyhow, its clear to me whether you need to make the check, it is not to the players... I'll be making it clear to them VERY SOON.

I do want to research Small characters and Large mounts. I have a small problem with this, but can't seem to find anything "in the rules" that lends to my suspisions... I may need to dig (Ba BA BUMMM) "OUTSIDE of the RULES!" Reality is a dual-edged sword at our table....

Aluvial

 

[irdeggman]

I do want to research Small characters and Large mounts. I have a small problem with this, but can't seem to find anything "in the rules" that lends to my suspisions... I may need to dig (Ba BA BUMMM) "OUTSIDE of the RULES!" Reality is a dual-edged sword at our table....

Aluvial

Well there is the reach effect to acount for (unfortuneately that doesn't really afect small characters, tine it does but not small)

There is something about as long as your mount is 1 size larger than you written somewhere pertaining to attacking.

Be careful on using "common sense" with relation to D&D rules since they do not follow such parameters

 

[ElectricDragon]

I wouldn't require the halfling riding behind the fighter to make a control mount check (DC 20) because the fighter is doing that. And whether the fighter makes of fails the check, the halfling has to make a DC 5 Ride check to use both hands (I am assuming he uses device-propelled missile attacks) at a -5 penalty for ill-suited mount (for him). Also, he would not get any bonus from a military saddle unless he had one specially made with two sets of stirrups (the back set shorter than the other) and the Animal Affinity feat and 5 ranks in Handle Animal would not help him (he is not controlling the mount), meaning he has to make a DC 10 ride check to fire his bow (or whatever). The attack would be normal on a single move and -4 on a double move (made at the mid-point of the move) or -8 when running (also at the mid-point of the move). With these restrictions, he could even make a full attack.

If you left the other combatants behind and continue to flee (and do not cast spells, shoot bow, etc.) then only the first Ride check is necessary. If the rider is still combatting his foes, he has to continue making the checks each round.

Of course, all of this is my opinion, not a hard-fast rule.

Ciao
Dave