D&D 5E Out of the Abyss DM Help (Spoilers)

[Xallin]

All,
I'm currently running Out of the Abyss, and my party just reached Gracklestugh, it's been fairly smooth sailing for me up to this point but now I find myself kinda stuck. The party is about to talk with Themberchaud, and I'm not super clear on the dragon's motivations. As I understand it, he thinks the keepers of the flame are up to no good, but isn't sure in what way. I get the feeling that he knows he is being manipulated, but to what extent. Does he know he's under psyonic control? Does he know that the keepers lost the egg that would be his replacement? I'm just not sure how to set this thread in motion, and I really want to. A dragon is a terrible thing to waste.

I'm having a similar problem with Capt. Blackskull. It says she sense that there is some sort of corruption worming through the city, and that Droki is the cause, but not really anything about why she suspects these things. The Keepers of the Flame have pretty obvious motivations. They want the egg back. I'm just having a tough time with this. I'm pretty new to this whole DM thing and would love some pointers or advice, or examples. Thanks.

 

[Quickleaf]

All,
I'm currently running Out of the Abyss, and my party just reached Gracklestugh, it's been fairly smooth sailing for me up to this point but now I find myself kinda stuck. The party is about to talk with Themberchaud, and I'm not super clear on the dragon's motivations. As I understand it, he thinks the keepers of the flame are up to no good, but isn't sure in what way. I get the feeling that he knows he is being manipulated, but to what extent. Does he know he's under psyonic control? Does he know that the keepers lost the egg that would be his replacement? I'm just not sure how to set this thread in motion, and I really want to. A dragon is a terrible thing to waste.

I'm having a similar problem with Capt. Blackskull. It says she sense that there is some sort of corruption worming through the city, and that Droki is the cause, but not really anything about why she suspects these things. The Keepers of the Flame have pretty obvious motivations. They want the egg back. I'm just having a tough time with this. I'm pretty new to this whole DM thing and would love some pointers or advice, or examples. Thanks.

I can help with Themberchaud. I played the "is he or isn't he under psionic control" card, leaving it ambiguous; if I had to make a determination I'd say yes he is, but the control is subtle and incomplete. Because the ego of red dragons is untamable.

He's driven by the desire for adulation, and having the Keepers respond to his every whim, being able to bask in treasure while telling mortals what to do...well, that's a red dragon's dream come true.

I imagine him like those neighbors with a pet tiger. Just imagine you had neighbors like that. They assure you they have the situation well in hand, that they've taken their pet tiger to training school, that it loves children, etc. But it's a tiger, and sometimes when it sits in a purring half-lidded state, you swear it's fixating on the back of someone's head imagining feasting on them (or their pet poodle). Extrapolate that to Themberchaud, and add keen intelligence.

It would be quite the twist to have Themberchaud ultimately be the one who contracted the Gray Ghosts thieves' guild to steal the red dragon egg...since Themberchaud has figured out that he's destined to be killed and replaced by the hatched wyrmling, and would rather that didn't happen. And then, in classic "inside job kidnapping" fashion, the thieves decide they have their own plans.

EDIT: You could even have Themberchaud try to covertly hire the PCs, or sway them to a sympathetic position for his plight, or - if the PCs become hostile to duergar - to play the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" card.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I more or less dropped Blackskull from the adventure, focusing on the dichotomy between Themberchaud and the Keepers of the Flame – both wanted the PCs to find the egg without the other knowing. Themberchaud knows his cushy job will be forfeit if the Keepers of the Flame get a younger, more malleable dragon.

Had I kept Blackskull in the mix, I think I would’ve tied her concerns to the growing madness of King Steelshadow. She can see the city crumbling around her as the demonic influence spreads, but has yet to connect all the dots past Droki.

 

[MarkB]

Sorry to piggy-back on the OP's thread, but I happen to also be facing a Gracklstugh conundrum at the moment.

My group's characters went to Blingdenstone first, and are about to head to Gracklstugh as part of a Svirfneblin trading caravan. They have pressing business back in Blingdenstone, so this is intended to be a passing visit. I'm rather torn as to what, and how much, I should throw at them in order to sink in a few good plot hooks for later without getting them completely embroiled in events while they still have unfinished business elsewhere.

What would you recommend as a good "Gracklstugh taster package"?

 

[Xallin]

Did i miss something? The King is mad?

 

[CapnZapp]

Who's NOT mad in Gracklrstugh... is the question you should be asking... ☺

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Charles Rampant]

Gracklestugh is famously tough to run. I've not run the adventure, but from all accounts and purposes it shares the same role - and the same problems - as Vallaki in Curse of Strahd; a central and big town with loads of factions and loads of plots that you're somehow expected to understand and run.

I suggest that you try to decide what your end goal here is; what do you want Gracklestugh to be about? How will the players remember it? You can also use a diagram to draw out all the actors and plots in the storyline (Droki, Themberchaud, the King, etc). Then you use this to decide an action plan. When I ran Vallaki, I first ensured that I understood what everyone was doing and what I wanted the overall effect to be. Then I had a rough plan - revisited before each session - for what would happen, in what order, and to what outcome. You can easily turn that into a timeline.

These towns are much more difficult to run than a dungeon is - you can't just operate room to room - but I personally find them to be rewarding. You have a lot more narrative power here - you can have new actors and new complications introduce themselves at any time - which will work best when you have decided how you want things to proceed.

As to Themberchaud... He's powerful, influential, fat. He acts like he is the most important person in the town - and to a certain viewpoint, he is. But he is also very far from invulnerable, and a hidden sword of damocles hangs over his head. At any time, he can be replaced, and indeed is but one in a line of powerful, influential, fat dragons to have held his position. He's probably smart enough to have worked all that out. But what does he do with that information? Knowing that the sword of damocles hangs over your head does not necessarily give you the power to remove it. So there is a tension in his situation - a hidden tension, but present nonetheless. And then the players arrive - powerful outsiders with no ties to the Duergar.

I'd roleplay him like the Godfather, myself - hoping to capture that blend of violence, faux-respectability, and self-delusionary grandeur.

 

[CydKnight]

Themberchaud knows that the Keeper's of the Flame are withholding things from him, but rather than demand disclosure, he has waited and observed. He wants agents of his own, and sees the interest of the Keepers in the adventurers as an opportunity. I think this 1st paragraph under "Agents on Wyrmsmith" on page 66 sets the tone for what you ask regardless of whether you believe he knows he is under psionic control. He simply knows they are hiding things from him and wants to find out what. This is why he demands that his handlers allow him to speak with the adventurers in private so he can find out. I assume the Red Dragon doesn't even know the egg exists prior to meeting the adventurers. The Keepers must know that if Themberchaud was aware of the egg he would be suspicious of their intentions especially since those intentions are to hatch said egg and replace Themberchaud. I think it should also be noted that Red Dragons are suspicious of all others by nature and less reason than is given here would probably be cause for that suspicion.

Capt. Blackskull specifically says why she is suspicious of Droki under the paragraph headed "Search for Droki" on page 63. .....she voices her suspicions that Droki is linked to a conspiracy involving the Council of Savants, and maybe even elements among the clan lairds. She describes in detail how discovering the conspiracy and purging the corrupt will earn her great favor with the Deepking. The reasons for her suspicions center around her nature as a Duergar Captain of the Stone guard to be suspicious and Droki being a very suspicious looking character in appearance if not deed. You could link it to the Council of Savants easily by simply implying that they are always under surveillance and Droki has been seen coming and going from the Halls of Sacred Spells where they reside. The Duergar will always be suspicious of the Derro since they are former slaves and considered second class citizens. Further it is mentioned that the Duergar do not enter the Halls of Sacred Spells as it's main doors are false. Savants enter and leave by magical means while other Derro enter by secret tunnel. If I were an ambitious Duergar Captain who was charged with keeping order in Gracklstugh, I would certainly be suspicious of the apparent leaders of the societies "second class citizens".

 

[Xallin]

Thanks for the help. I have Themberchaud and Capt Blackskull worked out. The king is posing a problem though, he's not covered much. I found the part about him being mad, and am a little bummed they didn't come up with something and decided to use a random table for it. Currently I'm thinking that the king doesn't take an threat seriously, and the more serious the funnier he finds it. Given the seriousness of what is going on in his kingdom, I think him laughing off the dire information provided to him would be a good queue that something is up. The players can gain an audience with the king if they give information to the stonekeepers, or helping expose corruption and the sevants plan, or by dealing with the grey ghost problem. It says his consort is a succubus in disugise that is loyal to Graz'zt, and her job is to keeping him insane. So i think I can work with this. Thoughts suggestions? Thanks.

 

[hastur_nz]

I was a player through the first half of OotA (we gave up after escaping the underdark). What grated on me as we went though it, was that it felt like every major NPC was insane, and couldn't be reasoned with. So after a while, we mostly gave up trying to talk reason to people, or even figure out too much about what was going on; basically, we ceased to care and just end up killing stuff or ignoring it, and hoped we eventually figured out an exit plan. Which was shame, most of us like some chances to think as we play.

For example, it says the King's consort is a succubus in disguise that is loyal to Graz'zt, and her job is to keeping him insane? Well, we never figured that out, so my distant memory of our interaction with the King, was we found him useless and moved on (trying to get out of the underdark).

Whereas with Themberchaud, we also found him troublesome to deal with, but we at least got a 'quest' from him, which we kind of did, and we also figured out that the Dragon Egg was a valuable item for him and also for the Keeper's of the Flame, so we played those two off against each other, as best we could... which wasn't great, to be honest, because we couldn't really figure out who was actually the 'good guy', probably none, and probably both were at least half insane. So we ended up killing Themberchaud, and kept the dragon egg for ourselves lol...

Anyway, I'd just say try and be mindful of allowing the players to have enough chances to figure out stuff, and actually do stuff that makes a difference; try not to keep all the 'DM knowledge' as 'DM only' for the whole game. Try and allow players a decent amount of insight into what's actually going on, and chances to think and plan and do stuff that they think might make a difference. As written (I've skim-read parts of the adventure, after we finished playing it), I think there's too much madness for its own sake, and the adventure might well read as great for a DM, but the important part is actually how much fun it is for players... and in that regard, it needs some work here and there, IMO.