[ot, spoilers] Enterprise 27-2-02

[ColonelHardisson]

Yeah, my dislike of time travel stories is really in how Trek has previously handled them. TOS did have a few really good examples of how to do them so they aren't annoying, though, so let's discuss the series that followed. TNG set the theme, with I don't know how many episodes where the time travel device was used simply to screw around with the conventions of the series, but then to be able to pull the old switcheroo at the end and bring everything back to the status quo. Given that watching television is a time-wasting pursuit in the first place, to further waste it by watching a story that won't even impact upon the characters or setting seems too much to me.

To me, the paragon of time travel used correctly as a story device is found in Babylon 5. Everytime it was used, it created a huge impact, and what was wrought by way of time travel most often ended up as a recurring theme throughout the rest of the series - take Londo as the Centauri Emperor as an example, and how actions from other episodes, both those that dealt with time travel and those that did not, impacted upon him and the other characters. This is a far cry from how more recent Trek series have dealt with time travel. The last episode of Voyager and now Enterprise seem to be changing that, though, and good for them.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, you could also argue that Babylon 5 was quite boring, because everything they did during time travel was already "hardwired" in the reality - they couldn`t fail when they send Bab4 to the last shadow/minbari encounter, because Bab4 was there. If it didn`t, they wouldn`t be able to send it back in time...

Mustrum "Unfortunately, Enterprise doesn`t run in German TV, at least not yet" Ridcully

 

[Zerovoid]

Well, you could also argue that Babylon 5 was quite boring, because everything they did during time travel was already "hardwired" in the reality - they couldn`t fail when they send Bab4 to the last shadow/minbari encounter, because Bab4 was there. If it didn`t, they wouldn`t be able to send it back in time...

Mustrum "Unfortunately, Enterprise doesn`t run in German TV, at least not yet" Ridcully

While this might be true to some extent, I don't think its a problem. B5 does a good job of building up the time travel stuff slowly, with prophesices, and dreams, and the B4 episodes. Until the episode War without End, in season 3, the viewer doesn't konw the whole story. Once you've seen that part, earlier episodes might seem inevitable, but you didn't know that when you watched them. And after War without End, all bets are off, because the future is yet to be written.

 

[Mark]

I'm not a B5 guy, so I can't make or follow the comparisons that are being made using those examples. Sorry.

In regard to TNG, though, the idea that those involved with 1701C weren't aware of how time had been changed by the end of the episode did effect the actual timeline of the series. They later ran into Tasha's daughter and had to surmise that either things had been changed or they were unaware of some events that happened to Tasha.

There were a number of ways that they effected the timeline and one of my personal favorites was the timeloop episode with the inexplicable repeating of the number three.

I'm not saying the TOS time episodes weren't good but I thought the later series were better at showing that there could be consequences. The TOS time travel episodes were more quick to sweep them under the carpet, never to be heard from again, than later series efforts.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Actually, I believe Bab5 handled many things better than Startrek Series. But Babylon 5 was also a series in which the producer had a "master plan", unlike Startrek. Especially the Next Generation was a "one shot" show - every episode was uniqe and could mostly be seen on her own. It is easier for viewers, that don`t have time to see all episodes. And it did also fit the principe of an ongoing adventure of exploration, of a Trek - never look back.

Deep Space Nine and Babylon 5 were both series about a space station. And a Station is, well, stationary - it can`t run away from older stories, they can easily come back.
(But in Deep Space Nine the producers realized this fact much later.)
The problem of this shows is that, with their continuing storyline, you need to focus on them, watch every episode. And that is not a thing for everyone...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Aaron L]

I liked DS9, loved it really, until the last season, with things like Sisko being the son of a Prophet started popping up.

 

[dagger]

I must be easily amused, but for me, this is the best thing since TNG. I like the new show very much, its my favorite ship also.

Me and my wife like to see hot chicks so we don't mind the Vulcan at all, we think she makes a fine Vulcan, all around.

 

[Zerovoid]

I admit to also liking time travel episodes in general. I enjoyed all the ones in TNG, and the Enterprise C episode is definatley one of my favorite episodes of that series. The problem is, things that are cool in small doses often become lame very fast when they show up all the time.

Although I only watched the first few seasons of voyager, and then a few sporadic episodes later, I always thought it seemed like a pretty descent show. I also liked Kes, and was pissed off when they replaced her with 7 of 9's breasts. Unfortunately, right after Seven joined the crew, everything became Borg this, and Borg that. Whatever mystique the Borg had left after TNG was quickly sqandered.

Time travel is the same way. I always liked time travel, but if I remember correctly, Voyager has two or three time-paradox episodes, in a row, in the first ten episodes. And it gets even worse from that point on. With a little better pacing, the occasional time travel episode would have been fun, but you can't have far out episodes like that all the time.