Orcs vs. Commoner Humans

[Moonstone Spider]

I was putting together a low-power game scenario the other day in which a key event would be two dozen orcs (Bog standard ones) attacking and slaughtering (Unless the PC's helped) a villiage of around 50 human commoners.

Just one problem, when I ran the numbers I realized the Orcs were going to die horribly from the commoners alone. How are the Orcs as written a threat to commoner humans? Observe:

Commoners have a decent number of skill points and both listen and Spot are class skills for a commoner. Meanwhile Orcs with their low intelligence have a miserable selection of skill points and don't have move silently or hide. So the couple of humans wandering around with lanterns and shouting "All's Well!" are probably going to see the Orcs coming and alert the town, it's quite possible that the Orcs will actually walk into an ambush.

A commoner can only use one weapon from the simple list with any proficiency. I figure a first level commoner can't afford a crossbow and most weapons will be improvised farming or hunting tools, daggers, sickles, and slings with some quarterstaves, spears, and clubs thrown in. With only 5HP for the Orc, most of those weapons have the potential to be instant death to an orc in one hit if the human rolls decently, and all of them will kill by the second hit. The Orc has only significantly better chances of getting a hit in since he has studded armor and a BAB 1 point higher, so one Orc IS a match for a level 1 commoner (And is almost certain to kill in one hit) but it's no sure thing, and at two to one the Orcs get slaughtered. And the bonus feat the humans all have means they have far more options, although I assume most commoners are probably going to have things like a skill focus on a craft or service skill a few will surely have been draftees in some fight or another and picked up some combat feats.

And this is Orc raiders vs. Farmers with pitchforks and knives, not Orcs vs. human warriors with gear to match an orc. How did these guys ever manage to become a threat?

 

[Goolpsy]

We have also often wondered why poor peasants didn't go out and kill kobolts, goblins or orcs... and live happily ever after....

First thing: Commoners aren't supposed to fight....
2nd: I know its not a definit d&d.. but.. things such as FEAR comes into mind... If you were a little Farmer with a chicken in one hand andcorn in the other... would you Hide... or Risk YOUR life .. just to TRY and defend the town..?

Hide: 80-100% Survival...
Fight: .... Auch....

And remember... Orcs might keep coming.. so in a few weeks all Peasants are dead if they do things the aggresive style...

 

[Imp]

Instead have two dozen cats attacking and slaughtering a village of around 50 human commoners?

Ok, more seriously: a lot of the commoners are going to be various kinds of old and less fit for combat stats-wise, and so they won't perform as well, more minuses to hit and damage and such. So that would tip things more towards the orcs.

I guess where these sorts of stat comparisons fall down is they assume fanatic morale on both sides, which is something a village of farmers definitely won't have...

 

[Bihor]

First of all, a village of 50 people will have only half of that number will be able to fight, and half of that will be scared and will be running.
And what commoner is gonna take time to learn to listen and spot instead of learning to farme or make shoes, but orc will try to intimidate.

 

[nogray]

Under cover of Darkness

One might also be inclined to point out that orcs have darkvision (60'), and would be aware that most humans do not. That means they would probably raid at night, possibly when it is overcast and/or moonless. The partial or total concealment offered by being in total darkness or shadowy illumination (at or beyond the edge of the lantern light) would definitely help the orcs and hinder the defenders. The orcs would probably start the raid by attacking the people with lanterns from the edge of their darkvision range (either with a charge from surprise or with hurled weapons). They would have a fair chance of killing the humans before even being seen. They then might find creative (read: destructive) uses for the flaming oil in those lanterns. Set a few buildings on fire and pick off people as they run out. Engage the peasants in a fight only at even odds or better. As you pointed out, two plucky commoners might kill an orc before the orc gets them, but that would be based more on dice rolls than anything else.

You also mentioned that the orcs have one higher BAB, but I believe they also have a strength bonus that is 2 points (or more, depending on the stat arrangement) than the average commoner. They are big and strong, and they know it. They are also more combat-hardened. Think like a bully--or a guerrilla warfare raider/terrorist--with certain tactical advantages (darkvision, being the attacker) and you'll see that the chances of the human villagers successfully repelling an attack is much slimmer.

 

[Vorput]

I dunno, there's something to be said for 2 to 1 odds. Granted, it's true- most of those commoners aren't likely going to be able to fight.

However, I wouldn't totally discount them either- husbands fighting to defend their families, and some decent attack rolls won't win the battle- but it will at least bring down a few orcs. Even if only 1/4 of the town is willing to fight (bout 13), they still have a chance- albeit a small one. They could at least buy their families time to escape, which would circumvent the complete slaughter aspect. And if they're running, and the orcs attack...well- then they may very well turn as one and attack... and that would be a different outcome as well.

Vorp

 

[Moonstone Spider]

And what commoner is gonna take time to learn to listen and spot instead of learning to farme or make shoes, but orc will try to intimidate.

The Horndog who likes to tryst in the hayloft and doesn't want to get caught.
The Poacher who likes to augment his meager diet with deer meat.
The Rancher who needs to see and hear predators before they make a meal of his sheep/cows/goats.
The Farmer who realizes there's freaking ORCS wandering around and wants a chance to know they're coming.
The town watchman who plays police and yells "All's Well" at ungodly hours.

And Orcs have charisma penalties, which hurt them a lot in intimidation, which they also don't have as a skill at all. Intimidation is more likely the other way around.

 

[Keoki]

1. Numbers. All the orcs involved are combatants. Most commoners in a community are not.

2. Weapons. If armed with greataxes, the orcs are doing about three times as much damage, not to mention hitting more often and with a decent chance of sundering the commoners' weapons.

3. Armor. Not only would they hit more often, but they themselves would be harder to hit, especially with concealment from darkness.

4. Experience. In a typical orc raiding party there are bound to be a few higher-level warriors/barbarians, while commoners don't usually get past 1st level.

5. Preparation. Even if the humans did notice the orcs' approach, getting everyone armed and in position that quickly would likely not be possible. They would be coming at the orcs a few at a time, affording the invaders the chance to make coordinated attacks, flank, etc.

Darkvision, an orcish advantage mentioned in an earlier post, might not figure into things, since darkvision is only usable in total darkness.

The one advantage typical commoners would have is knowing the territory, an advantage they would probably not have enough time to use.

 

[Goolpsy]

Nogray....

Sounds like your Orcs got plenty of Int... with your way of doing things... i could make sure 2 Orcs would be enought to raid the Town... Don't Overplay them...

 

[RigaMortus2]

2. Weapons. If armed with greataxes, the orcs are doing about three times as much damage, not to mention hitting more often and with a decent chance of sundering the commoners' weapons.

I don't think three times the damage is going to matter when just 1 swing is going to take someone down anyway. If a commoner has 4 hit points, who cares if they get hit for 5 damage or 12 damage from a greataxe?

But in general, I concur with your statements. The chances of all 50 commoners being in the same place at the same time as the orcs raiding will be slim to none.