Official Ruling on Stinking Cloud?

[SlyFlourish]

I have two questions on Stinking Cloud:

1. I get that it blocks line of sight but doesn't that mainly affect ranged attacks? What sort of concealment does someone have in the cloud when being attacked by an adjacent melee strike? What if two people in the cloud are fighting? What if one person is fighting inside the cloud and one outside but adjacent?

2. Can someone force another to move into the cloud and will that person take damage both when they go in and on their own turn? Can someone push them in, pull them out, and push them in again to take even more damage? (IE. Mordinakin's Magnificant Cheese Grater). My group is convinced that if I were to allow this, they could kill major bosses in a couple of rounds with just a rogue and wizard sliding them in and out over and over.

For 1 I am tempted to say that EACH FULL SQUARE of the stinking cloud blocks line of sight but two adjacent creatures are unaffected and can pummel each other with fish without penalty.

For 2. I am tempted to treat it as though it had the following wording: "A creature forced to move into the area does not take damage for entering the area". This ensures there is no cheese grater effect, reduces record keeping to keep track of whether or not the creature already took damage, and still makes it useful to push someone in since they take damage on their own turn.

So what official rulings have there been? How do you guys normally it out?

 

[lazerfish]

I agree with your ruling for 1, though I don't allow them to use fish, only live cats.

 

[Larrin]

If you don't want a cheese grater, rule that the cloud is dangerous terrain and a person gets a saving throwing to fall prone and end the movement. Its in the rules somewhere, though you may find arguments on whether or not the cloud fully qualifies, I'd say it does.

 

[mlangsdorf]

Dangerous terrain is defined as terrain that has an extra movement cost to enter and that doesn't block Line of Sight. Stinking Cloud isn't dangerous terrain.

I think the ruling that only voluntary movement counts as "entering" the Cloud is fairer, has less weird side-effects, and is more in line with the general mechanics of D&D4e.
​

 

[Kordeth]

Dangerous terrain is defined as terrain that has an extra movement cost to enter and that doesn't block Line of Sight. Stinking Cloud isn't dangerous terrain.​

No, that's the definition of difficult terrain. There is no definition of "dangerous terrain;" the DMG talks about difficult terrain (costs extra movement), blocking terrain (prevents movement and blocks line of sight), challenging terrain (requires a skill check to cross), and hindering terrain (prevents or restricts movement, inflicts damage). (DMG pp. 60-61) If forced movement takes you into hindering terrain, you get a save to fall prone before entering that terrain. (DMG p. 44)​

 

[Tony Vargas]

1. I get that it blocks line of sight but doesn't that mainly affect ranged attacks?

Yes.

What sort of concealment does someone have in the cloud when being attacked by an adjacent melee strike?

There are only two kinds of concealment in 4e - concealment and total concealment - if a character is in a stinking cloud or other effect that blocks line of sight, but at the edge of it (that is, adjacent to one or more squares that do not block line of site), then lines from other squares to the corners of his do not all pass through the line-of-sight-blocking effect, thus, he has concealment, not total concealment. Similarly, he can pick a corner of his square on the outter edge of the effect when figuring concealment he faces -so he likely faces none when attacking enemies outside the cloud.

What if one person is fighting inside the cloud and one outside but adjacent?

If you mean they are adjacent to eachother, then, the one in the cloud has concealment, the one outside does not. If the one inside the cloud isn't on the edge of the cloud - thus, not adjacent to the one outside the cloud, both have no LoS to eachother (total concealment).

What if two people in the cloud are fighting?

This is, perhaps, a bit iffier, but you could rule they both merely have concealment, if you wanted. I think, technically, they would both have total concealment, unless the effect said otherwise.

2. Can someone force another to move into the cloud and will that person take damage both when they go in and on their own turn?

I tend to think the damaging effect of the cloud happens on the victims turn. So, if you move into it on your own turn or start your turn in the cloud (perhaps because you were moved into it out of turn) you take damage, otherwise, you don't.

However, it would be equally fair to rule that the cloud is hindering terrain, inflicts damage the moment you enter for any reason, and that you get a save to fall prone outside the cloud any time an effect would force you to enter it.

Can someone push them in, pull them out, and push them in again to take even more damage?

You mean all at once, like using a slide effect to move them back and forth along the edge? No, that's just silly. Though, this does illustrate one of the advantage of the damage-only-on-the-victim's-turn interpretation, above, as this is a non-issue under that interpretation.

 

[Vaeron]

If you wanted to, you could rule that moving a creature into the Stinking Cloud is hazardous terrain and provokes a saving throw to avoid the forced movement (like if they were being pushed into a pit). Just remember to apply that ruling fairly to PCs as well when they're facing enemies with AOE or forced movement attacks.

As far as the wizard and rogue's plan, I see nothing to prevent them from doing something like that. The only reason it wouldn't work is if the DM just didn't want it to. You could always, of course, have an NPC or monster do the exact same thing to them.

After all, if I remember right the wizard can sustain and move the Stinking Cloud if they want - suggesting that catching monsters in it and not letting them out is an intentional part of its design... Just like the old 1e Stinking Cloud. Eh, in Pool of Radiance and Curse of the Azure Bonds gold box games you never ever wanted an enemy spellcaster to use that spell on you.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The wizard /can/ move the stinking cloud, but moving it over someone doesn't inflict damage (they're not /entering/ it), not unless you leave it on top of them & until they start thier turn in it, anyway. So, for instance, you can roll the cloud completely over the party fighter to engulf a different enemy. Neither takes damage on your turn, on the fighter's turn, he takes no damage (he's not in the cloud), and the enemy takes damage from being in the cloud at the start of his turn.

 

[SlyFlourish]

Thank you

Tony, your explanation seems the most reasonable I've seen or heard or thought about. I think I'll use those rulings for the line of sight issue. I think I'm going to stick to the idea that forcing movement doesn't trigger damage. It's simpler than saving and falling prone.

Thank you

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yeah, I think you're right on that, if you leave just starting in the cloud, or voluntarily moving into the cloud, then a given victim will take damage only once per initiative cycle. That certainly seems reasonable for something that does damage over time, like a cloud of poison gas.