Now you're thinking with Portals! Abusing Arcane Gate

[Jack Fremont]

I'm assuming I'm missing something that prevents this from working, or that it will eventually be erattaed, but for the purpose of having fun with the rules, lets just imagine that this works.

Arcane Gate, a level 10 Wizard utility spell. Pick two empty squares within 20 squares of you and anyone can move between them as if they were next to eachother, and it only takes a minor action to sustain. Sure there are the tactical possibilities of running away or getting your party into perfect flanking position, but what about using it as a means of damage?

Falling damage does 1d10 damage for every 10 feet you fall. Assuming you can open the portal in the air 20 squares up, and the previous version's concept of 1 square equals 5 feet, that's 100 feet for 10d10 damage after pushing a baddy into the gate. With so many abilities that move people around, this could be devastating.

One concern is getting an ability that moves them more than one square as you need to both get them into the ground portal square, but then push them a second square through the portal into the square in the air. This is easy enough to rectify by getting the right powers or taking feats like Spear Push to make sure you get that second square

The second concern is the saving throw. When you're about to go over the edge you get a saving roll. The kicker however is that even if they make it, they get knocked prone.

That's a hell of a combo. Knock someone into a gate and they get knocked prone and possibly take 10d10 damage. Either way you're at an advantage.

This is a double edged sword however, baddy's can push you in as well. First point of discussion, how can we help prevent ourselves from falling victim to this? Being a dwarf sounds like a good start. Are there any other ways?

Second point of discussion; what are some other interesting ways to use arcane gate? Perhaps aiming the portals such that you can keep a monster trapped in a falling between both gates so he takes several more d10's of damage when the effect ends? With a cliff nearby you could make use of the good ol Portal property of "Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out" to launch yourself across a gap, or if the cliff is high enough, make your own very limited catapult but dropping boulders through the one portal and launching them out the other. A mansized hunk of adamantine dropped on a poor soul could be amusing. Anything else?

 

[MindWanderer]

Strictly going by RAW, you cannot be moved through the gate involuntarily.

 

[Jack Fremont]

Any creature that enters one of the target squares can move to the other target square as if it were adjacent to that square.

Strictly by the RAW it works. The two squares are treated as being adjacent to eachother for purposes of movement. Is there something somewhere else that conflicts with this?

 

[Mort_Q]

Is there something somewhere else that conflicts with this?

The word can.

RAW, they can choose to, but they're no forced to.

I'd allow grabbed individuals to be dragged through... I think.

 

[Jack Fremont]

the book also mentions how you "can" move about a number of squares, meaning you choose to. The thing is, you're using Forced Movement to negate their choice of going through the portal just like you would use it to negate their choice of being pushed into a pit.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Strictly by the RAW it works. The two squares are treated as being adjacent to eachother for purposes of movement. Is there something somewhere else that conflicts with this?

Actually, since it says CAN move rather than DOES move, my read is that according to RAW you have to be willing to use the portal to be affected by it.

 

[Jack Fremont]

Speed: Your speed is the number of squares you can normally move when you walk

Emphasis mine. You can choose to walk around, but when a guy pushes you, the movement is forced. Unless the power mentions that you can choose, you don't. It's no different than getting pushed across the battlefield or into a pit.

 

[Vaeron]

Important thing to remember that being pushed into a pit square triggers a saving throw. The word "can" would normally imply that it's a choice to go through the portal. But the point of bull rushing or sliding them into the square would be to specifically target the portal. Therefore, the enemy would be entitled a saving throw to avoid being knocked into the pit, just as if it were a normal pit entrance. Success means they fall prone at the portal edge.

At least, that's how I'd adjudicate it.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Emphasis mine. You can choose to walk around, but when a guy pushes you, the movement is forced. Unless the power mentions that you can choose, you don't. It's no different than getting pushed across the battlefield or into a pit.

I disagree. IMO, they're two different uses of the word can.

Forced movement automatically moves you into a space, but as I read the portal description, it is the creature's choice whether to move through the portal or past it.

To put it another way, as I read it, a creature could willingly enter the portal square and choose not to use the portal, if so desired. If a creature can stand in or move through the square, of it's own free will, without triggering the portal, then I'd say that by RAW you cannot force a creature through the portal using forced movement.

Granted, I have nothing against allowing a creature to be forced through the portal, provided it is allowed a save to fall prone and negate the movement, but IMO it would be DM fiat.

 

[Leatherhead]

I am suddenly reminded of my 3rd grade teacher and how she would get mad at the class for using "can" instead of "may".


edit: typo