Pathfinder 1E Non-Lethal Damage and Critical Hits

[wally]

The Core Rulebook has very little to say about using lethal weapons to deal non-lethal damage. You can but with a -4 penalty. There are things that negate that penalty, but I am concerned more with the effect.

If you are using a heavy pick to deal non-lethal damage, wouldn't that mean you are not trying to hit them with the pokey bit that would normally cause lethal damage? If so, wouldn't a critical hit as non-lethal mean that you are hitting really well, but not as the weapon is intended? How would it still do x4 damage on a critical as non-lethal?

If there are updates, errata, etc. beyond the Core Rulebook, please let me know.

If there isn't any futher information on this, what does everyone here think?

-Wally

 

[RangerWickett]

I'd say that doing nonlethal damage with a normal weapon is not "I'm trying not to hurt him." It's "I'm trying to take him out without killing him."

So a normal non-lethal hit with a pick might be impaling him in the thigh rather than the chest. A critical non-lethal hit would be walloping him in the side of the head with the back of your pick. You're still taking caution not to kill him (-4 penalty, both to hit and to confirm), but if your aim is good enough (nat 20), you can get in a solid hit that debilitates him quickly.

Makes sense to me.

 

[wally]

I'd say that doing nonlethal damage with a normal weapon is not "I'm trying not to hurt him." It's "I'm trying to take him out without killing him."

So a normal non-lethal hit with a pick might be impaling him in the thigh rather than the chest. A critical non-lethal hit would be walloping him in the side of the head with the back of your pick. You're still taking caution not to kill him (-4 penalty, both to hit and to confirm), but if your aim is good enough (nat 20), you can get in a solid hit that debilitates him quickly.

Makes sense to me.

Impaling the thigh is non-lethal? So, can you hit normally anywhere beyond the vitals with lethal damage?

-Wally

 

[RangerWickett]

It's really up to your interpretation, and how 'Hollywood' or 'realistic' you want the game to be. Ultimately, there's got to be a ton of hand-waving around hit points.

Mechanically, you're supposed to be able to fully recover all nonlethal damage in a few hours, so I suppose "impale" might be a bit much. But biologically, it's actually really hard to knock a person unconscious without them being at risk of dying. It's not like the movies where you can thunk a person on the back of the head and drop them, then wake them up a few hours later with no ill effects. Try that with a friend (by which I mean never try that with a friend), and you'll risk causing brain damage.