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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9240657" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>Why would an expert roll for an easy lock?</p><p></p><p>If it can change from round to round, that's an argument to roll for literally everything. Everything can change from round to round. It's a shoo in, nope since it's possible to sneeze and fail, you need to roll.</p><p></p><p>5e simplifies thing. If the outcome(ultimate end result) is not in doubt, there is no roll. If it is in doubt, then you roll. </p><p></p><p>Now there can be corner case scenarios where you ordinarily would not have to roll, but something is pressuring you right now and so you roll. But that happens because there is a meaningful consequence for failure(the time pressure event happens before you can succeed). If you later come back to that lock(or whatever caused the check) and the pressure is not present, there would be no need for you to roll. But that's a corner case event, not the way things normally happen. In short, it's a case of specific beats general. The specific circumstances have forced a roll when the outcome would not ordinarily be in doubt.</p><p></p><p>For a lock with no such specific circumstances, there is no roll at all by RAW if the outcome is not in doubt. And if, with all the time in the world, the outcome(ultimate end result) is in doubt, then there should be no retry or autosuccess if you fail the roll. RAW does not allow for that since autosuccess would have precluded the first roll and the one roll is to determine the ultimate outcome of what you are trying to accomplish.</p><p></p><p>Now the DMG guidelines do offer up advice to the DM that he can allow retries or rule retries impossible, and that advice applies to locks as much as any other ability check. How you would take that advice does not have to be how I would take that advice. Both ruling the lock retriable and impossible to attempt a second time fall within that DMG guidance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 9240657, member: 23751"] Why would an expert roll for an easy lock? If it can change from round to round, that's an argument to roll for literally everything. Everything can change from round to round. It's a shoo in, nope since it's possible to sneeze and fail, you need to roll. 5e simplifies thing. If the outcome(ultimate end result) is not in doubt, there is no roll. If it is in doubt, then you roll. Now there can be corner case scenarios where you ordinarily would not have to roll, but something is pressuring you right now and so you roll. But that happens because there is a meaningful consequence for failure(the time pressure event happens before you can succeed). If you later come back to that lock(or whatever caused the check) and the pressure is not present, there would be no need for you to roll. But that's a corner case event, not the way things normally happen. In short, it's a case of specific beats general. The specific circumstances have forced a roll when the outcome would not ordinarily be in doubt. For a lock with no such specific circumstances, there is no roll at all by RAW if the outcome is not in doubt. And if, with all the time in the world, the outcome(ultimate end result) is in doubt, then there should be no retry or autosuccess if you fail the roll. RAW does not allow for that since autosuccess would have precluded the first roll and the one roll is to determine the ultimate outcome of what you are trying to accomplish. Now the DMG guidelines do offer up advice to the DM that he can allow retries or rule retries impossible, and that advice applies to locks as much as any other ability check. How you would take that advice does not have to be how I would take that advice. Both ruling the lock retriable and impossible to attempt a second time fall within that DMG guidance. [/QUOTE]
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