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<blockquote data-quote="Mirrorrorrim" data-source="post: 9240598" data-attributes="member: 7040132"><p>You're saying that players don't roll for DC10 checks because the outcome is not in doubt? And there is no meaningful consequence for failure at DC 10? What about DC 11? DC 15? Where is the middle ground between where DC 10 is an automatic success that you don't roll for, but you roll against DC 11 or DC 15, and a single failure means this moderate task is beyond your trained skill and you can't keep trying?</p><p></p><p>Because RAW in the DMG says "Very Easy DC 5" tasks are the ones where you consider not rolling. They assume that Easy (DC10), Moderate (DC15), and Hard (DC20) tasks are rolled. </p><p></p><p>Also, just narratively, the very nature of just about any non-interaction, task-based, skill challenge in just about any story suggests that if the skilled person didn't get it on the first try, they just need a little more time, and if time is of the essence, or danger is about, they should get crackin' while their allies cover them. Safecracking, lockpicking, solving a puzzle, playing music, doing a backflip, punching one of those punch-pressure meters. You get to keep trying. Not everything is a security password protocol that locks you out after 1 failure. And even those let you try 3-5 times.</p><p></p><p>It is not RAW for a DM to claim that a DC 15 task is outside your trained skill. If the DM says that a lock becomes unpickable if you fail once, that is merely a ruling, not a rule. And if another person gets to try and you don't? That doesn't make sense narratively, or in a gamist sense.</p><p></p><p>Your arguments represent rulings, not rules. You keep inventing new reasons and new goalposts to explain why your preferences are the rules. This isn't an older edition where a single failure means you don't get to roll again.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mirrorrorrim, post: 9240598, member: 7040132"] You're saying that players don't roll for DC10 checks because the outcome is not in doubt? And there is no meaningful consequence for failure at DC 10? What about DC 11? DC 15? Where is the middle ground between where DC 10 is an automatic success that you don't roll for, but you roll against DC 11 or DC 15, and a single failure means this moderate task is beyond your trained skill and you can't keep trying? Because RAW in the DMG says "Very Easy DC 5" tasks are the ones where you consider not rolling. They assume that Easy (DC10), Moderate (DC15), and Hard (DC20) tasks are rolled. Also, just narratively, the very nature of just about any non-interaction, task-based, skill challenge in just about any story suggests that if the skilled person didn't get it on the first try, they just need a little more time, and if time is of the essence, or danger is about, they should get crackin' while their allies cover them. Safecracking, lockpicking, solving a puzzle, playing music, doing a backflip, punching one of those punch-pressure meters. You get to keep trying. Not everything is a security password protocol that locks you out after 1 failure. And even those let you try 3-5 times. It is not RAW for a DM to claim that a DC 15 task is outside your trained skill. If the DM says that a lock becomes unpickable if you fail once, that is merely a ruling, not a rule. And if another person gets to try and you don't? That doesn't make sense narratively, or in a gamist sense. Your arguments represent rulings, not rules. You keep inventing new reasons and new goalposts to explain why your preferences are the rules. This isn't an older edition where a single failure means you don't get to roll again. [/QUOTE]
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