New review critical of DUNE: PART TWO based on the depiction of Chani

Hatmatter

Laws of Mordenkainen, Elminster, & Fistandantilus
Hello everyone,

I am happy to share my review of Dune: Part Two that is ultimately quite critical of the film. The film has been praised to high heaven by the press and by the fan community here...a reception for which I was well prepared given how brilliant I thought 2021's Dune was. Then I saw the film.

Anyway, I share my review with you here: "Dune: Part Two: Denis Villeneuve's Bad Idea, the Mind-Killer of Great Science Fiction."

I am sure that there are many of you who enjoy the film and will disagree. Be nice and we can chat.
 

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I really enjoyed the 2021 film. I thought Part 2 was tedious and kind of dumb. So you're not offending me with your criticism! Although I think Herbert's novel is also way overrated, so I don't think the main problem with Dune 2 is Villeneuve thinking he could do better than Herbert. I wish he had!

Though your argument about the Paul/Chani relationship feeling like something out of a YA novel is on point. However, if you've cast Timothy Chamalet and Zendaya...
 
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I really enjoyed the 2021 film. I thought Part 2 was tedious and kind of dumb. So you're not offering me with your criticism! Although I think Herbert's novel is also way overrated, so I don't think the main problem with Dune 2 is Villeneuve thinking he could do better than Herbert. I wish he had!

Though your point about the Paul/Chani relationship feeling like something out of a YA novel is on point. However, if you've cast Timothy Chamalet and Zendaya...
Thanks for taking the time to read the review, Clint. (y)
 

So in reading the review, I had a very different take.

One key difference between Tolkien and Herbert, Herbert admitted to a mistake. He is quoted that after the book was released, that people took Paul too much as a hero, whereas he wanted Paul to be a cautionary tale about putting too much faith into saviors and religion in general.

Chani is the one that reflects that message in Part 2, she is the one that rises above the religious zealotry and goes "wait a minute, this isn't right". Even as she loves Paul she fiercely disagrees with the cult that is building around him, and wastes no opportunity to make that point known.

The reviewer sees Chani's leaving at the end as the reflection of a "lover's spat", whereas to me this is Chani continuing her role of rejecting this path of prophecy laid out for Paul, rejecting him as a cult leader for her people that has now risen up to gain extraordinary power, and as a consequence begins sending her people to the stars to fight....and to die. In the books Chani shuts her mouth and goes along with the plan because her lover and the Maudi knows best. In this version, Chani questions the very nature of Paul as a savior....questions that Herbert himself was hoping his audience would ask.


It is certainly a different take on the story, but I don't think its a weaker one.
 

So in reading the review, I had a very different take.

One key difference between Tolkien and Herbert, Herbert admitted to a mistake. He is quoted that after the book was released, that people took Paul too much as a hero, whereas he wanted Paul to be a cautionary tale about putting too much faith into saviors and religion in general.

Chani is the one that reflects that message in Part 2, she is the one that rises above the religious zealotry and goes "wait a minute, this isn't right". Even as she loves Paul she fiercely disagrees with the cult that is building around him, and wastes no opportunity to make that point known.

The reviewer sees Chani's leaving at the end as the reflection of a "lover's spat", whereas to me this is Chani continuing her role of rejecting this path of prophecy laid out for Paul, rejecting him as a cult leader for her people that has now risen up to gain extraordinary power, and as a consequence begins sending her people to the stars to fight....and to die. In the books Chani shuts her mouth and goes along with the plan because her lover and the Maudi knows best. In this version, Chani questions the very nature of Paul as a savior....questions that Herbert himself was hoping his audience would ask.


It is certainly a different take on the story, but I don't think its a weaker one.
Hi Stalker, thanks. Boy, I hope that is true. The reason I interpreted it as I did is that Chani leaves immediately after Atreides arranges to marry Irulan and the camera lingers on Chani's face, which (to my eyes) shows her pique at being betrayed. This is what ruined it all for me for the reasons I describe in the review. I know that Chani was trying (at least verbally) to put the breaks on Atreides and failing, but to this old man it seemed like what sent her running was the arranged marriage.

If that was not he case, I would re-evaluate the entire film. But, I suppose I would wonder why Villeneuve shot and edited it in the fashion that he did.
 

So....I disagree with the review, but probably for different reasons than what you may think.

1. I liked the Hobbit Trilogy of movies. Why? See Below.

2. If you are a True Lord of the Rings novel fan, you cannot like the movie trilogy by Jackson as something that represents the books. It tries to make it far too much of a horror movie which has very little redeeming value and forgets most of the true themes found in the book. It forgets the nobility of Faramir, the loyalty of Sam and Frodo's loyalty in return (who in the heck decided Frodo would force Sam to leave and that Sam would do so??? THAT was an absolute travesty of the movie adaptation). The faults of it are so far and insulting to the novels it amazes me how many try to claim it has any true relevance to the trilogy other than the basic resemblance to the books.

Anyone who was a True Lord of the Rings Fan could tell you that Jackson and others would deviate from the novels eagerly and easily if they made the Hobbit movies. If I wanted a movie trilogy based on the books and that followed their themes and ideas...and that was all I was basing my enjoyment of them on, I would absolutely hate and abhor the LotR trilogy by Jackson. I think Tolkien would have hated the movies and said that they did NOT represent his work, his ideals, or anything that dealt with him. I think Christopher Tolkien felt very similar and tried to block what he could while he was alive (Rings of Power would probably have killed him if he wasn't dead already if he saw it).

3. I love the LotR trilogy by Jackson. Why? Because it is NOT the Lord of the Rings by Tolkien. It is it's OWN thing. It's made to be it's OWN thing. As far as the cinematography and how it's made, it's an absolute masterpiece.

4. I liked the Hobbit Trilogy for the same reason. Any reasonable person who saw Jackson's LotR should have realized that it was in no way representative of the novels and that Jackson took MASSIVE liberties with the movies which deviated greatly from the books. Characters were absolutely OUT of Character and were not the same people (movies) they were in the books. Thus, it should be no surprise that he did it all over again with the Hobbit movies. The only difference is that people were older and more fondly remembered the Hobbit than they did the LotR. (granted, the Hobbit is a shorter novel and easier to read than the LotR is. By Page 100 in the Hobbit they've left the shire, been captured and defeated the trolls, visited Elrond's house, Gone into the Mountains, been caught and escaped the goblins, Bilbo's met gollum and found the ring, and they are then being chased out of the mountains into the countryside by angry goblins and worgs. In the Fellowship of the Ring at around page 100....they've just left the shire).

5. With that in mind, let's visit Dune. The First movie of the series that came out recently actually did quite well of capturing the feel of the movie...up until they decide they have to make Duncan a one man army who heriocally defeats half the Harkonnen pursuit force ( I mean...WTH is up with that!!!). Then they forget what Harkonnens even look like and make them a bald ghostlike race. At this point, it should have been clear that Villenueve had no desire to recreate the books. Once that was clear, I had no problem enjoying his masterpiece, following it whereever he chose to take it.

6. If you want a movie that is closest to the spirit of the books, I'd say watch the original 1984 movie. It also deviates, but it keeps the spirit of the originals closer to the books IMO. If you want a movie (or in this case, miniseries) that actually follows the storyline of the books the closests, you would be best to get the sci-fi series that showed up on Sci-Fi. Even better, it also has a sequel that takes us up to Children of Dune (and a shame it never got to show us God Emperor of Dune).

7. With it's sequel, the new Dune movies are probably the furthest from the storyline of any of the movies and series made based on Dune, and the feel of the novels is missing from it. However, the movies in and of themselves are masterpieces, far more than anything about Dune that came before. It deviated from the Novels FAR too greatly during the first film. It was obvious at that point that Villenueve was doing his own thing. You then had a choice. You could either choose to enjoy it like many did with Jackson's LotR (which many choose to ignore how it absolutely destroys the characters portrayal by how it deviates from how they are represented in the books, amongst other changes), or hate it like many did with Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy (which, in reality, just does the same thing that his LotR trilogy did, just people suddenly noticed a lot more...perhaps because it was made into a trilogy when, as the novel was shorter, should have probably been a single film instead).

8. Still here? I'll finally conclude. I enjoyed the Dune movies by Villenueve. If I expected them to follow the books, I'd have been disgusted by the end of the first movie and never looked back, throwing it into the junkpile of films that have no clue what the book they are based on are even about. Instead, I viewed it as cinema, and as cinema, as it's own thing on it's own merits and found I loved it and it's sequel. I hope they make a third movie, because at this point, I have no idea what to expect will be in that movie except perhaps an answer to what happens to those dumb Fremen crusaders who left on their holy war (who knows, at this rate, they may all be slaughtered on their first planet...I have no idea where this thing is going), and maybe what happens to Paul. I'm along for the ride and I hope it keeps on going.
 

Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy (which, in reality, just does the same thing that his LotR trilogy did, just people suddenly noticed a lot more...perhaps because it was made into a trilogy when, as the novel was shorter, should have probably been a single film instead).
No, I think that it was that "as their own thing" the LotR movies where great, and The Hobbit movies were not.
 



So in reading the review, I had a very different take.

One key difference between Tolkien and Herbert, Herbert admitted to a mistake. He is quoted that after the book was released, that people took Paul too much as a hero, whereas he wanted Paul to be a cautionary tale about putting too much faith into saviors and religion in general.

Chani is the one that reflects that message in Part 2, she is the one that rises above the religious zealotry and goes "wait a minute, this isn't right". Even as she loves Paul she fiercely disagrees with the cult that is building around him, and wastes no opportunity to make that point known.

The reviewer sees Chani's leaving at the end as the reflection of a "lover's spat", whereas to me this is Chani continuing her role of rejecting this path of prophecy laid out for Paul, rejecting him as a cult leader for her people that has now risen up to gain extraordinary power, and as a consequence begins sending her people to the stars to fight....and to die. In the books Chani shuts her mouth and goes along with the plan because her lover and the Maudi knows best. In this version, Chani questions the very nature of Paul as a savior....questions that Herbert himself was hoping his audience would ask.


It is certainly a different take on the story, but I don't think its a weaker one.
This was my take on viewing as well.
 

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