New magic item, Wizard's Chest (Help)

[A2Z]

I've been trying to work out how I'd price this item. Unfortunately the pricing rules in the DMG are confusing to say the least. Anyway, here's the item.

Wizard's Chest
A wizard’s chest is a large wooden chest approximately 3½ ft x 2½ ft wide and 2 ft deep or approx. 15 cu. ft. The chest is finely crafted of strong oaken wood reinforced with iron bands. The owner of a wizard’s chest can, upon utterance of the command word cause the chest to shrink to 1/12 of its size (Shrink Item). When closed the chest locks magically as per the Arcane Lock spell. The chest itself has a hardness of 5, 20 hit points and a break DC of 33 (+10 Arcane Lock) (PHB pg 136).

Caster Level: 6th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Arcane Lock, Shrink Item; Market Price: ?gp; Weight: 3 lbs.

Now I'm not sure about the price. If I use the table in the DMG (Command word - Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp), that would make the price 32,400gp [Shrink Item 3rd level spell x caster level 6 (to affect a 12cu. ft. chest) = 18 x 1,800gp]. That seems like a lot. Especially since a similar item, Heward's Handy Haversack, costs only 2,000gp to buy.

Here's another problem though. If I buy a masterwork chest; (The chest in the PHB is 2 cu. ft. for 2gp, so for a 12 cu. ft. masterwork chest [12/2=6, 6x2gp = 12gp, +100-200gp for masterwork say) so probably no more than 200gp for a chest, right? Casting Arcane Lock on the item is permanent and only costs 25gp. Since Shrink Item has no material component it's free to cast. But then I'd have to get Permancy cast on it. That would be, 180gp (3rd level spell at 6th level x10gp). It also costs 1500XP to cast (So 1,500XPx5gp=7500gp).

So with the Permancy it'll cost me about (225gp+180gp+7500gp) 7905gp approxamately for the chest. Much less then creating it myself. So, am I wrong on the Magic Item Creation cost? It seems to me I must be. Any help?

 

[dcollins]

Note that the first guideline for the DM to use when pricing new magic items is to "match the new item to an item priced" in the DMG -- only if that doesn't work should you turn to the table of estimated prices.

A small bag of holding contains 30 cu. ft., is created with the Leomund's secret chest spell, and costs 2,500 gp. That seems pretty analagous to the proposed item, exchanging some space (your item is actually 17.5 cu. ft.) for the locking ability. Seems about 2,500 gp is fair.

 

[A2Z]

Hmm, that worls for me. It's up to my DM though. Is there any way to work out that price, and for that matter the price of the Bag of Holding, using the quidelines given in the DMG?

 

[RigaMortus]

Ok, so the chest shrinks... but what happens to the items inside? Do they bust through the chest as it shrinks?

 

[dcollins]

Hmm, that worls for me. It's up to my DM though. Is there any way to work out that price, and for that matter the price of the Bag of Holding, using the quidelines given in the DMG?

Probably not. The table really is just a guideline, and new items really are entirely up to the DM (both in price and whether they're allowed at all).

 

[A2Z]

A small bag of holding contains 30 cu. ft., is created with the Leomund's secret chest spell, and costs 2,500 gp. That seems pretty analagous to the proposed item, exchanging some space (your item is actually 17.5 cu. ft.) for the locking ability. Seems about 2,500 gp is fair.

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Here's my reasoning for the price; The chest seems to be of less imediate use than a HHH. The haversack will let you retrieve any item out of it as a free action without having to search for it. In order to retreive anything from the chest you have to enlarge it, open it and then search through it to find what you want. The haversack is obviously of much more use in combat or a similar situation than the chest.

Another issue is in comparisson to a Bag of Holding. The smallest bag holds 30 cu ft and weighs 15 lbs. The chest only holds 15 cu ft. Half that of a bag of holding. So maybe the weight of the chest when shrunk should be more like 5 lbs.

Since both of these items are 2,000-2,500 gp and both are probably of more use than the chest I figured price of half their's would be resonable. Anyway, with those changes in mind here's a revised description.
[/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica]

Wizard's Chest: A wizard’s chest is a large wooden chest approximately 3½ ft x 2½ ft wide and 2 ft deep or approx. 15 cu. ft. The chest is finely crafted of strong oaken wood reinforced with iron bands. The owner of a wizard’s chest can, upon uttering the command word cause the chest (and all the items inside) to shrink to 1/12 of its original size. Using a second command word the owner of the chest can cause it to magically lock as per the Arcane Lock spell. When shrunk the chest cannot be opened by any means and if broken it, and all of its contents, return to normal size. A Wizard's Chest has a hardness of 5, 20 hit points and a break DC of 33. The chest weighs 70 lbs. when empty and 1/12th of this weight when shrunk.
Moderate transmutation; CL: 6th; Craft Wondrous Item, Arcane Lock, Shrink Item; Market Price: 1000gp.

[/font]

 

[A2Z]

Bump for great justice!

Please validate me...

 

[Beholder Bob]

Sneaky. Yep, very sneaky. You could put dozens of these in a bag of holding or portable hole. Yep, I like it. I would price this at 5000 GP. While it is of less immediate use, it uses a different method to achieve it (and must also shrink its contents, not just itself). It can be stored in a bag of holding, or hold a few dozen bags of holding itself. The price is a guestimation, as the table for generating prices is of no use here. Also, if you reduce the dimensions to 1/12, that would reduce its weight more then by 1/12....

"...to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). "​

Now at 1/12, it becomes a 3.5"x2.5"x2" box that weighs .65 oz, not counting the mass of objects inside (1/1728 their normal mass).

Also: add it can not increase in size if it encounters any resistance (so you can not throw it into a monster's mouth and explode it), and require it to be on a hard flat surface (so you do not levitate above a monster and drop a fully re-sized chest).

 

[A2Z]

Sneaky huh. Well, I'm not really setting out to find ways to carry a few tonnes of stuff with me. All I want is a shrinking chest so I don't have any problems putting restrictions on it like your idea.

add it can not increase in size if it encounters any resistance (so you can not throw it into a monster's mouth and explode it), and require it to be on a hard flat surface (so you do not levitate above a monster and drop a fully re-sized chest).

Also, what if I put a restriction on how it interacts with things like a Bag of Holding or Portable Hole? Something along the lines of not being able to put them in it? I'm trying to keep the price as low as possible.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Sure thing! If it reverts to normal size while in a bag of holding/port-o-pit, then it should be about 1500 gp. It weighs next to nothing, so it is better then the haversack there, but lack of melee use and all I'd drop it 25% to the suggested retail price above. Add - it takes a full round each (provoking AOO) to enlarge, open, and reduce it. Also of similar utility would be saddle bags of the same design (1000 gp perhaps).