New Feat: Hoplite Spear-Fighting

[BASHMAN]

I designed this feat after being absolutely ticked off that people wanting to make a Spartan ala 300 had no such option in D&D 3.5 (note in 3.0 the halfspear was a good weapon-- 20' throwing, x3 crit, but only d6 dmg. No big deal. In 3.5 it was replaced by the shortspear, which is the same but only a x2 crit. It was like they decided that ALL simple weapons would have only a x2 crit unless they were wielded 2 handed, regardless of what other versions of the same weapon did.

So I give you a feat that makes a hoplite possible:

Hoplite Spear-Fighting allows you to use a spear as a one-handed martial weapon (as opposed to a 2-handed simple weapon). It may even be set vs. a charge 1-handed (you plant the back of the spear in the ground). On your turn, you may spend a standard action to attack a foe 5' beyond your usual reach as you choke up on the spear. This feat only functions if you are wearing medium or lighter armor.

Reasons This feat is balanced-- Exotic Weapon Proficiency Bastard Sword allows you to use a d10 dmg weapon with a superior crit (19x2) in one hand. Heck, just being a dwarf lets you use a d10 x3 crit weapon in one hand as a martial weapon. Spear is only a d8 damage, so it is actually weaker as a 1-handed martial weapon than either of those two choices-- so to make it a bit better, I let you make a single attack with extra reach as a standard with it. I realize that there is already a feat in the Ph2 that allows this-- but that works with ANY weapon, even unarmed strikes, and does not care about your armor. A spear is a long weapon, even though it is not listed as having reach it should have an option to allow it (it definately outreaches a longsword). Note also, those who would whine that this is too powerful, that you are limited to medium armor if you use this feat.

 

[AnonymousOne]

My only suggestion is that this feat be limited to light armor/unarmored. It just seems to mech more with the Hoplite ideal. I know that tends to screw over a fighter ... but I think that's the price you are going to pay.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Hoplites

Well, that's strange. Hoplites are technically heavy infantry, so it wouldn't make much sense from that perspective to limit it to light/no armor.

 

[El Jeraldo]

I like this feat. I believe it fulfills your purpose. However, my problem is not with the weapon use, though if I were to run into one you would have just fixed it, it is the nature of the Phalanx. It is an amazing battle tactic that DnD seems to over look completely. I have never seen anything that would give me a better idea of how to work this in DnD terms. If there ahs already been a discussion on EN World or in a DnD book about the Phalanx and you could point me toward it, that would be great. Otherwise, I believe creating a feat that could be used with others that also had the feat would be the way to go for creating the Phalanx and your spear use feat would allow this to work by allowing the spear to be used one handed. I’m open to all ideas.

-El Jeraldo

 

[Nifft]

You could make it a [Tactical] feat with three special combat options...


Hoplite [Tactical]
Prereqs: BAB +6, Weapon Focus (spear), Weapon Specialization (spear), Shield Specialization, Active Shield Defense
Benefits: You gain access to three new combat options:
- Spear and Shield: You may use a spear as a one-handed weapon while also wearing a shield. While wearing a shield, you may set your spear against a charge as a Move action.
- Reach Attack: Using your shield to cover a motions that would otherwise leave you vulnerable, you thrust your spear at a distant foe. While wearing a shield and wielding a spear, you may make a single attack with your spear at +5 ft. range as a Standard action.
- Phalanx Ward: Used in conjunction, your spear and shield are a potent defense against charging foes. While wearing a shield and wielding a spear, you may both make an attack of opportunity and also a Reflex save to avoid the effect of a trample or overrun attack. You always get an attack of opportunity against foes who attempt to bull rush or grapple you, even if their feats normally don't allow you one.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Sound of Azure]

You could make it a [Tactical] feat with three special combat options...


Hoplite [Tactical]
Prereqs: BAB +6, Weapon Focus (spear), Weapon Specialization (spear), Shield Specialization, Active Shield Defense
Benefits: You gain access to three new combat options:
- Spear and Shield: You may use a spear as a one-handed weapon while also wearing a shield. While wearing a shield, you may set your spear against a charge as a Move action.
- Reach Attack: Using your shield to cover a motions that would otherwise leave you vulnerable, you thrust your spear at a distant foe. While wearing a shield and wielding a spear, you may make a single attack with your spear at +5 ft. range as a Standard action.
- Phalanx Ward: Used in conjunction, your spear and shield are a potent defense against charging foes. While wearing a shield and wielding a spear, you may both make an attack of opportunity and also a Reflex save to avoid the effect of a trample or overrun attack. You always get an attack of opportunity against foes who attempt to bull rush or grapple you, even if their feats normally don't allow you one.

Cheers, -- N

Nice one, Nifft. I don't know about epochrpg, but I'm definitely yoinking this one. Thanks for posting it up.

 

[Stalker0]

Just as a note, in 300, those were all shortspears. They were not longspears, nor did they really jab at people from 10 feet away. Remember, 10 feet is REALLY far away when your poking at a guy with a sharp stick. A longspear would be the pikes in braveheart.

So if you assume the spartans are good high level fighters (level 6-10 perhaps). With weapon spec and a good strength those guys are doing 1d6 + 5 damage a swing, easily enough to knockout into bleeding the common chumps they mainly fought against (the vast majority of the persian army were slaves, d4 commoners).

Then if you add in the fact that the chump guys had crappy armor (mainly leather, so AC 12). Versus fighters with a +11 to hit (level 6 fighter, weapon focus, 16 str, masterwork weapon), they could throw in some power attack and really get the job done.

 

[BASHMAN]

Just as a note, in 300, those were all shortspears. They were not longspears, nor did they really jab at people from 10 feet away. Remember, 10 feet is REALLY far away when your poking at a guy with a sharp stick. A longspear would be the pikes in braveheart.

So if you assume the spartans are good high level fighters (level 6-10 perhaps). With weapon spec and a good strength those guys are doing 1d6 + 5 damage a swing, easily enough to knockout into bleeding the common chumps they mainly fought against (the vast majority of the persian army were slaves, d4 commoners).

Then if you add in the fact that the chump guys had crappy armor (mainly leather, so AC 12). Versus fighters with a +11 to hit (level 6 fighter, weapon focus, 16 str, masterwork weapon), they could throw in some power attack and really get the job done.

My issue with the shortspear in RAW is not that it does a d6 damage. I don't care about that. It is the x2 Critical that is ridiculous. Arrows, longspears, spears all have x3. Why not the shortspear? Answer- because it is a 1 handed simple weapon and somebody at WOTC decided that in 3.5 the laws of physics would change so all simple weapons held in one hand only do x2 crit.

The Half-Spear from 3.0 was a perfect weapon to use for doing Hoplites. 1d6 dmg, 20' range, x3 crit. The shortspear in 3.5 is a watered down version of it.

As far as the not having 10' reach thing, I disagree. Assume that an attack must reach from the end of your square to the center of the opponents square. Assuming that your attack comes from the center of your own square assumes that you are not reaching towards your opponent, which is just dumb. It comes from the end of your own square, because you are leaning towards your target and reaching toward them.

That means to hit someone in the next square, you need to reach 2.5 feet, aka the length of your arm, which is why an unarmed strike can hit in spite of using 5' squares. To reach someone two squares away, you need to reach 7.5 feet. Subtract the 2.5 for the length of your arm, and you get 5'. The spears used by the spartans (and the spear in the phb) is at least 6' long. So if you choked up on it near one end, you should be able to make a lunge at someone 2 squares away.

 

[trav_laney]

I designed this feat after being absolutely ticked off that people wanting to make a Spartan ala 300 had no such option in D&D 3.5 (note in 3.0 the halfspear was a good weapon-- 20' throwing, x3 crit, but only d6 dmg. No big deal. In 3.5 it was replaced by the shortspear, which is the same but only a x2 crit. It was like they decided that ALL simple weapons would have only a x2 crit unless they were wielded 2 handed, regardless of what other versions of the same weapon did.

We still use the 3.0 halfspear in our 3.5 game...haven't had any balance issues from it yet. (shrug) I suppose I could make it a martial (or even exotic) weapon, but so far I see no need to nerf it.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

No way were those shortspears. They were "Spears" note the lack of 'short' or 'long' and used with one hand, the way spear and shield was meant to be. It is looking like all the research I am doing is placing them at or around 7 feet or longer, and are called Doru.