Nerve Swimmers
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Knight Otu
First Post
Again, we should propably mention the illithids here. My idea (along with a bit of cleanup):
Nerve swimmers are horrors originally created by unscrupoulus entities as instruments of torture and interrogation. The base for these creatures were illithid tadpoles, but whether the illithids themselves created them in the first place cannot be said with certainty. Nerve swimmers burrow into the flesh and then the nerves of their victims, where they can cause a number of problems for their host, including horrible pain, and can determine if their host lies.
Nerve swimmers enjoy the tasks they were created for, but many swarms of nerve swimmers no longer have any masters. These swarms often try to form their own agenda and act upon it. Being reasonably intelligent, they have taken to enslave other creatures with their abilities or simply recruit them. Among their favorite hosts to be enslaved are drow wizards, who do not usually have the physical prowess to endure the tortures, but have enough authority and the reputation to set the nerve swimmers' plans in motion.
While nerve swimmers are quite long-lived, regularly out-living their hosts, those swarms without a host must hibernate for long periods. Their old masters placed them in large urns, but any environment will do. As the swarm hibernates, it is common for a few members to die and spread their vital energy among the other members. Nerve swimmers do not speak, but have the power of telepathy, which allows them to communicate with most creatures.
Nerve swimmers are horrors originally created by unscrupoulus entities as instruments of torture and interrogation. The base for these creatures were illithid tadpoles, but whether the illithids themselves created them in the first place cannot be said with certainty. Nerve swimmers burrow into the flesh and then the nerves of their victims, where they can cause a number of problems for their host, including horrible pain, and can determine if their host lies.
Nerve swimmers enjoy the tasks they were created for, but many swarms of nerve swimmers no longer have any masters. These swarms often try to form their own agenda and act upon it. Being reasonably intelligent, they have taken to enslave other creatures with their abilities or simply recruit them. Among their favorite hosts to be enslaved are drow wizards, who do not usually have the physical prowess to endure the tortures, but have enough authority and the reputation to set the nerve swimmers' plans in motion.
While nerve swimmers are quite long-lived, regularly out-living their hosts, those swarms without a host must hibernate for long periods. Their old masters placed them in large urns, but any environment will do. As the swarm hibernates, it is common for a few members to die and spread their vital energy among the other members. Nerve swimmers do not speak, but have the power of telepathy, which allows them to communicate with most creatures.
Knight Otu
First Post
Detect lies - should it be a free or an immediate action?
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
Some commentary:
In the interest of saving space, I’m removing all self-explanatory abilities (the same sort of which are not included in individual monster descriptions in the MM), as well as type and subtype traits. Thusly, removing “swarm traits” from this guy, thusly removing three unnecessary paragraphs totaling 235 words – it is a good thing.
Also, I believe “includes the creature’s Ability Focus feat” is usually omitted in the MM, so I will do that here too. That will reduce more than you’d think, since it appears three times. (21 words)
And does the Telepathy ability need to be spelled out? I know it usually works on creatures that have a language rather than creatures with an Intelligence score… thoughts?
I’m not trying to be stingy, but we do have limitations on space so we can’t be overly wordy when it’s not needed.
Rewrote this, based on above comments (I’m going to add the line “are considered to inhabit the host” to the flesh burrow attack, so that it need not be restated on the other attacks):
Discern Lies (Su): Three times per day, as a free action, a nerve swimmer swarm that inhabits a host can use discern lies as the spell (caster level 12th; Will DC 17 negates) on the host. The save DC is Charisma-based.
I know I’ve seen this somewhere before… unless, I was only thinking of this nerve swimmer that is:
Skills: Nerve swimmers make Intimidate checks as though they were Large.
Because of this “climb 20 ft.”: I added these: “Climb +3” and “Nerve swimmers have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. A nerve swimmer swarm can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.”
How about this for dominate (took a few cues from the vampire):
Domination (Ex): Once per day, a nerve swimmer swarm that inhabits a host can force the host to obey its commands. The host must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or be affected as if by a dominate monster spell (caster level 6th). This control lasts for only 6 rounds at a time. The nerve swimmers control the victim’s body directly instead of the mind; therefore this ability is not mind-affecting. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Should that be a Fortitude save, even if it’s not mind-affecting?
How about this for flesh burrow:
Flesh Burrow (Ex): Any living creature damaged by a nerve swimmer swarm must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or the swarm will burrow into its flesh. A swarm that succeeds on this attack is considered to inhabit its host; it can use its domination, nerve strike, wracking pain and detect lies abilities, but not its distraction or swarm attack.
I want to simplify this part:
It is very difficult to remove nerve swimmers from the host, requiring a Healing spell of 5th level or higher that can cure diseases (such as heal), and even such magic requires a caster level check against a DC of 22 to function against the nerve swimmers. However, nerve swimmers often leave on theirown accord if they feel that they have reached their goal.
And how about a rewrite on these two:
Nerve Strike (Ex): Five times per day, a nerve swimmer swarm that inhabit a host can stop the host from taking any conscious action by absorbing its nerve impulses. The host must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or be affected as if by a hold monster spell (caster level 6th). The nerve swimmers control the victim’s body directly instead of the mind; therefore this ability is not mind-affecting. The victim can attempt a saving throw every round to shake off the effects of the nerve strike. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Wracking Pain (Ex): A nerve swimmer swarm that inhabits a host can cause its host to suffer wracking pain. This ability may be used at will, but requires a swarm to sacrifice two daily uses of either its nerve strike or domination abilities. The host must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or take 2 points of Strength and Dexterity damage. The host must succeed on another DC 19 Fortitude save or take 4 points of Constitution damage (half damage on a successful save). The save DC is Constitution-based.
Wouldn’t this power be a lot more useful if it worked more like the way it does for formians? Is there an ability like the one below in existence somewhere – it seems more like a vulnerability than a defense. Or even more like the hellwasp swarm?
Hive Mind (Ex): Nerve swimmer swarms are linked in a hive mind. Thus, they are treated as a single monster for the purposes of mind-affecting effects.
In the interest of saving space, I’m removing all self-explanatory abilities (the same sort of which are not included in individual monster descriptions in the MM), as well as type and subtype traits. Thusly, removing “swarm traits” from this guy, thusly removing three unnecessary paragraphs totaling 235 words – it is a good thing.
Also, I believe “includes the creature’s Ability Focus feat” is usually omitted in the MM, so I will do that here too. That will reduce more than you’d think, since it appears three times.
(21 words)And does the Telepathy ability need to be spelled out? I know it usually works on creatures that have a language rather than creatures with an Intelligence score… thoughts?
I’m not trying to be stingy, but we do have limitations on space so we can’t be overly wordy when it’s not needed.
Rewrote this, based on above comments (I’m going to add the line “are considered to inhabit the host” to the flesh burrow attack, so that it need not be restated on the other attacks):
Discern Lies (Su): Three times per day, as a free action, a nerve swimmer swarm that inhabits a host can use discern lies as the spell (caster level 12th; Will DC 17 negates) on the host. The save DC is Charisma-based.
I know I’ve seen this somewhere before… unless, I was only thinking of this nerve swimmer that is:
Skills: Nerve swimmers make Intimidate checks as though they were Large.
Because of this “climb 20 ft.”: I added these: “Climb +3” and “Nerve swimmers have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. A nerve swimmer swarm can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.”
How about this for dominate (took a few cues from the vampire):
Domination (Ex): Once per day, a nerve swimmer swarm that inhabits a host can force the host to obey its commands. The host must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or be affected as if by a dominate monster spell (caster level 6th). This control lasts for only 6 rounds at a time. The nerve swimmers control the victim’s body directly instead of the mind; therefore this ability is not mind-affecting. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Should that be a Fortitude save, even if it’s not mind-affecting?
How about this for flesh burrow:
Flesh Burrow (Ex): Any living creature damaged by a nerve swimmer swarm must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or the swarm will burrow into its flesh. A swarm that succeeds on this attack is considered to inhabit its host; it can use its domination, nerve strike, wracking pain and detect lies abilities, but not its distraction or swarm attack.
I want to simplify this part:
It is very difficult to remove nerve swimmers from the host, requiring a Healing spell of 5th level or higher that can cure diseases (such as heal), and even such magic requires a caster level check against a DC of 22 to function against the nerve swimmers. However, nerve swimmers often leave on theirown accord if they feel that they have reached their goal.
And how about a rewrite on these two:
Nerve Strike (Ex): Five times per day, a nerve swimmer swarm that inhabit a host can stop the host from taking any conscious action by absorbing its nerve impulses. The host must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or be affected as if by a hold monster spell (caster level 6th). The nerve swimmers control the victim’s body directly instead of the mind; therefore this ability is not mind-affecting. The victim can attempt a saving throw every round to shake off the effects of the nerve strike. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Wracking Pain (Ex): A nerve swimmer swarm that inhabits a host can cause its host to suffer wracking pain. This ability may be used at will, but requires a swarm to sacrifice two daily uses of either its nerve strike or domination abilities. The host must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or take 2 points of Strength and Dexterity damage. The host must succeed on another DC 19 Fortitude save or take 4 points of Constitution damage (half damage on a successful save). The save DC is Constitution-based.
Wouldn’t this power be a lot more useful if it worked more like the way it does for formians? Is there an ability like the one below in existence somewhere – it seems more like a vulnerability than a defense. Or even more like the hellwasp swarm?
Hive Mind (Ex): Nerve swimmer swarms are linked in a hive mind. Thus, they are treated as a single monster for the purposes of mind-affecting effects.
Last edited:
Knight Otu
First Post
Pretty much, yes. The wording is the same as the couatl.
Trust me, I've learned the joys of a maximum word count with Strange Lands. (cut, cut, cut, sob, cut...
)Especially since its not mind-affecting.
Common swarm ability. Check the Fiend Folio swarms, and the swarm traits in the SRD/MM:
It may be enough to simply have hive mind in the SQ line, with no description.
Shade
Monster Junkie
Agree with Knight...telepathy needs to be spelled out in this case, since it isn't the usual flavor.
I was hoping we could just go with a flat racial bonus instead, but it looks like this works differently than the usual grapple/trip/disarm for size.
I can't think of any other creature that has this noted.
To remove burrowing nerve swimmers, a heal spell or greater restorative magic must be cast upon the host (requiring a DC 22 caster level check).
It looks like the latest format for hive mind entries in swarms is as follows:
Hive Mind (Ex): Any hellwasp swarm with at least 1 hit point per Hit Die (or 12 hit points, for a standard hellwasp swarm) forms a hive mind, giving it an Intelligence of 6. When a hellwasp swarm is reduced below this hit point threshold, it becomes mindless.
and
Hive Mind (Ex): A shimmerling swarm that has at least 1 hit point per Hit Die (or 11 points for a standard shimmerling swarm) forms a hive mind, giving it an Intelligence score of 7. When a shimmerling swarm is reduced below this hit point threshold, its Intelligence score is reduced to 1. This change reduces its skill modifiers to the following values: Diplomacy +4, Hide +36, Listen +2, Move Silently +6, Sense Motive +2, Spot +2.
BOZ said:
I was hoping we could just go with a flat racial bonus instead, but it looks like this works differently than the usual grapple/trip/disarm for size.
SRD said:
I can't think of any other creature that has this noted.
BOZ said:
To remove burrowing nerve swimmers, a heal spell or greater restorative magic must be cast upon the host (requiring a DC 22 caster level check).
It looks like the latest format for hive mind entries in swarms is as follows:
Hive Mind (Ex): Any hellwasp swarm with at least 1 hit point per Hit Die (or 12 hit points, for a standard hellwasp swarm) forms a hive mind, giving it an Intelligence of 6. When a hellwasp swarm is reduced below this hit point threshold, it becomes mindless.
and
Hive Mind (Ex): A shimmerling swarm that has at least 1 hit point per Hit Die (or 11 points for a standard shimmerling swarm) forms a hive mind, giving it an Intelligence score of 7. When a shimmerling swarm is reduced below this hit point threshold, its Intelligence score is reduced to 1. This change reduces its skill modifiers to the following values: Diplomacy +4, Hide +36, Listen +2, Move Silently +6, Sense Motive +2, Spot +2.
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
Knight Otu said:
Hmm, I’ll leave it alone then, unless you like what Shade had to say.
How do you like my other takes on your originals?
(P.S., http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showpost.php?p=2016522&postcount=4 )Shade said:
yes… it varies by size.
Shade said:
that’s what I was referring to.
how about this one for the flesh burrow then:
Flesh Burrow (Ex): Any living creature damaged by a nerve swimmer swarm must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or the swarm will burrow into its flesh. A swarm that succeeds on this attack is considered to inhabit its host; it can use its domination, nerve strike, wracking pain and detect lies abilities, but not its distraction or swarm attack. A swarm may leave its host as a free action, but it is difficult to remove a swarm. To remove a burrowing nerve swimmer swarm, a heal spell or greater restorative magic must be cast upon the host (requiring a DC 22 caster level check).
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