Necklace of Fireballs - what's "simultaneous" detonation?

[Joshua Randall]

The necklace of fireballs (see complete description below) says that if its wearer fails a save vs. magical fire, the necklace must make a special save or all remaining spheres "detonate simultaneously".

What does that mean?

Does it means:

(1) Each sphere on the necklace detonates as a separate fireball, each with its indicated damage dice, and each with a separate DC 14 Reflex save for half.

(2) All spheres on the necklace detonate as one big fireball. Add up the damage dice for all spheres and make a single DC 14 Reflex save for half.

So, for example, a Type I necklace has 1 5d6 and 2 3d6 spheres. In case (1) there would be three damage packets of 5d6 (Ref DC 14 half), 3d6 (Ref DC 14 half), and 3d6 (Ref DC 14 half). In case (2) there would be one damage packet of 11d6 (Ref DC 14 half).

[sblock=Necklace of Fireballs]

Necklace of Fireballs: This device appears to be nothing but beads on a string, sometimes with the ends tied together to form a necklace. (It does not count as an item worn around the neck for the purpose of determining which of a character’s worn magic items is effective.) If a character holds it, however, all can see the strand as it really is—a golden chain from which hang a number of golden spheres. The spheres are detachable by the wearer (and only by the wearer), who can easily hurl one of them up to 70 feet. When a sphere arrives at the end of its trajectory, it detonates as a fireball spell (Reflex DC 14 half ).

Spheres come in different strengths, ranging from those that deal 2d6 points of fire damage to those that deal 10d6. The market price of a sphere is 150 gp for each die of damage it deals.

Each necklace of fireballs contains a combination of spheres of various strengths. Some traditional combinations, designated types I through VII, are detailed below.

[chart omitted]

If the necklace is being worn or carried by a character who fails her saving throw against a magical fire attack, the item must make a saving throw as well (with a save bonus of +7). If the necklace fails to save, all its remaining spheres detonate simultaneously, often with regrettable consequences for the wearer.

Moderate evocation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, fireball.

[/sblock]

 

[zeb.hillard]

Personally? No save, all dice at once.

Reflex saves from fireballs are based on your ability to somehow avoid the explosion. When you're wearing a Necklace of Explosive Decapitation, there's really no way to avoid the explosion, since's it's sitting there prettily on your chest and shoulders.

 

[Ambrus]

Number 1. Although they'd all form a single literal ball of fire, they're still individual spell effects each with its own damage dice and saving throw. A DM could ad hoc the effects, but the item and associated spell descriptions are fairly clear IMHO. Very few circumstances nullify a saving throw in the RAW, so I wouldn't lightly dismiss any PC's, especially if it'd automatically ensure their death. It's easy to imagine a quick witted character seeing the tell-tale glow of an imminent detonation and consequently trying to fling the necklace aside at the last second before it explodes.

That's the kind of stuff heroes do.

 

[rgard]

Number 1. Although they'd all form a single literal ball of fire, they're still individual spell effects each with its own damage dice and saving throw. A DM could ad hoc the effects, but the item and associated spell descriptions are fairly clear IMHO. Very few circumstances nullify a saving throw in the RAW, so I wouldn't lightly dismiss any PC's, especially if it'd automatically ensure their death. It's easy to imagine a quick witted character seeing the tell-tale glow of an imminent detonation and consequently trying to fling the necklace aside at the last second before it explodes.

That's the kind of stuff heroes do.

Agreed, I'd go with number 1.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I'm not really worried about whether or not the wearer makes the save, as my plan is for a palrethee demon (immune to fire) to detonate the necklace while in the midst of the PCs.

For what it's worth, I do think (1) [separate damage packets and saves] is what the rules seem to support.

 

[frankthedm]

I'm not really worried about whether or not the wearer makes the save, as my plan is for a palrethee demon (immune to fire) to detonate the necklace while in the midst of the PCs.

For what it's worth, I do think (1) [separate damage packets and saves] is what the rules seem to support.

Good idea

 

[Plane Sailing]

(1) Each sphere on the necklace detonates as a separate fireball, each with its indicated damage dice, and each with a separate DC 14 Reflex save for half.

(2) All spheres on the necklace detonate as one big fireball. Add up the damage dice for all spheres and make a single DC 14 Reflex save for half.

Definitely (1). Someone with Resist Fire 30 shouldn't be worrying much if a whole necklace of fireballs goes off at their feet, but if you added it up to one big fireball it would be virtually useless!

(If there were a dozen fireballs I might allow a PC to risk 1 save, but still apply the necklace fireballs separately)

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I'm not really worried about whether or not the wearer makes the save, as my plan is for a palrethee demon (immune to fire) to detonate the necklace while in the midst of the PCs.

The item does get a save at +7, which will defeat your typical fireball about half the time.
Do creatures immune to fire extend that invulnerability to their items? They don't have to make saves for themselves, but should they just to check for item damage on a 1?

 

[mvincent]

Reflex saves from fireballs are based on your ability to somehow avoid the explosion. When you're wearing a Necklace of Explosive Decapitation, there's really no way to avoid the explosion,

... unless you quickly take it off as part of your reflex save (i.e. could certainly see an action star being able to do this in a movie).

Reflex saves often assume that your character is doing tricky things to survive that you might never have thought of. Your character even gets to make reflex saves while sleeping... just as part of luck. So the first dentonation on the necklace might scatter the others off of the character's head.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Do creatures immune to fire extend that invulnerability to their items? They don't have to make saves for themselves, but should they just to check for item damage on a 1?

Note that for the specific case of the necklace of fireballs, the item has to make a save whenever any save vs. fire is failed -- not just on a roll of 1.

But, your question remains: Do creatures immune to energy damage technically have to make saves? In practice, of course they do not; but the immunity description doesn't say:

A creature with fire immunity never takes fire damage. It has vulnerability to cold, which means it takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from cold, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed, or if the save is a success or failure.

It doesn't say the creature doesn't have to make a save; it says it simply "never takes fire damage."

There is also this:

Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.

Does the bolded part mean Spell Resistance (SR)? Is fire immunity a "special resistance to magic"? (I would say no, as fire immunity extends to all sources of fire damage.)