Natural Attacks and the Monk's Class Abilities

[Tetsubo]

The latest issue of Dragon had another question for the Sage dealing with the Monk’s Flurry of Blows ability and natural racial attacks (claws, bites, etc.). And once again the Sage explained how only a Monk’s unarmed attacks or special Monk allowed weapons can benefit from the Flurry of Blows ability.

I think this is silly.

Real world martial arts developed to allow a human being to make attacks with our “natural” weapons, hands, feet, elbows, knees, etc. If we had claws and an ability to deliver an effective bite we would have included such options into the different styles of martial arts. Why would a race that did have such natural offensive capabilities not incorporate them into their own style of martial arts? They would of course, it’s only logical. Lizardfolk for example have two claw attacks and a bite. Wouldn’t you use them in a martial arts style if you had them?

Wizards has repeatedly failed to offer an option to incorporate such natural attacks with the Monk’s Flurry of Blows ability or the normal unarmed attacks. They have made playing non-standard races much easier in 3.x. They’ve even published an entire book dealing with it, Savage Species. But if one of those monstrous races decides to be a Monk their natural attacks and class abilities are forever separate. This makes no sense.

So, I ask a question: How can these abilities be combined into a cohesive martial arts style usable my Monks that are non-standard races? I would require any such character to take the Multiattack feat. That seems completely reasonable. But I am at a loss as to what to do next. A special feat to allow the use of natural attacks with a Monk’s class abilities? That seems to be too big of a penalty. Most races that have natural attacks already pay a level advancement cost. So what should be done?

Has anyone come up with a working solution for this in his or her own campaigns?

 

[Land Outcast]

Easy: allow them to be used in a Flurry of Blows. Anyways damage from unarmed strikes isn't that great.

But only allow those attacks which don't have a bonus to damage of Str x 1.5. for example: a minotaur's gore attack

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm with you, Tetsubo.

Like Land Outcast said, just allow them to be used with natural attacks. I like the limitation he put on it as well. Using such attacks with FoB should be either absolutely barred or available with FoB only with another Feat.

 

[Land Outcast]

In case anyone asks why: because those attacks "supposedly" involve a greater effort, or at least a greater momentum/pressure applied/whatever, so the fluid motion of the flurry wouldn't be conserved.

And the non-fluffy reason: to balance it, no weapon usable in a flurry has the benefit of Str bonus x 1.5 to damage.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And the non-fluffy reason: to balance it, no weapon usable in a flurry has the benefit of Str bonus x 1.5 to damage.

...except with the use of another Feat, like DCv1's Pole Fighter (which allows the use of the chosen polearm with FoB).

 

[Land Outcast]

O RLY?

2 times I've been mentioned that book in this forum, and twice because of polearm feats.

 

[Bront]

Serpent Strike from Eberron allows the Longspear to furry.

I'd allow natural weapons to FoB as a feat. Seems fair enough. I think the only potential problem with that is that some creatures have 1 obviously superior attack, and if you allow natural attacks, they could use that attack multiple times, which isn't quite what FoB is supposed to be.

 

[genshou]

Simple. The monk can attack normally with the natural attacks, or use them as part of the flurry using the standard rules for number of unarmed attacks usable in a full-round action, swapping out natural weapons in place of unarmed strikes whenever desired (up to the maximum amount of times that natural attack can be used per round, ie usually no more than one bite and two claw attacks per round). At your option, let the natural weapons deal the same damage die as an unarmed strike, if the unarmed damage is better due to Monk levels.

 

[Land Outcast]

At your option, let the natural weapons deal the same damage die as an unarmed strike, if the unarmed damage is better due to Monk levels

I belive the intention was to get a benefit from improved damage.

medium creature:
Fist= 1d3+Str
Unarmed strike = 1d6 + Str (2 size increase)

so, using the claw
medium creature:
Claw= 1d4+Str
Unarmed strike = 1d8 + Str (2 size increase)

Maybe I got the intent wrong... But I'd allow it

 

[Nyaricus]

Tetsubo, I think I have to agree with on all levels of your inital argument. I'd just liek to take a little tangent with it (as in continue the tirade against this dumb rule-call).

A Natural Weapon - what is this? Well, it's a part of somethings body which can be used as a weapon and isn't manufactured - a fist is a natural weapon, a gauntlet is a manufactered one.

An Unarmed Strike - what is this? Well, this is a part of your body you have trained to use as a weapon and isn't manufactured - you are "unarmed". By definition, you are also "unarmed" even if you sport horns, or razor-sharp teeth, because you do not have "arms", "weapons"; manufactred weapons to be exact.

So, in the end, these are one and the same. But how do we deal with the feat "Improved Unarmed Strike" - it doesn't seem to mesh well in this new vision. Why? Well here's why. In the monk build, you get IUS for free @ 1st, but a creature with claws and a bite attack (a lizardfolk, say - and lets just forget LA for a sec here) wouldn't need that feat - his own weapons are more effective. But, in lieu of IUS, giveing a free feat wouldn't be fair, under the rules. Why? Well, his own weaposn are more effective.

A human monk 1 gets IUS and a 1d6 attack. A lizardfolk 1 gets a free feat (or, in the DM is mean, gets the useless IUS), and a 1d8 attack. It's not fair.

So, we need to revise IUS before getting into this. Any ideas?