My Mana-based casting system

Melayl

First Post
This is my offering on a Mana/spell point casting system (also posted at WoTC boards), based off of the Psionics PP system. The Psionics system is simple, effective, and balanced. Hopefully this Mana system will be as well.

Few changes will be needed for any of the spells. Any needed changes should just fall under how they scale. The system should be easily adaptable to any new spells.

Part 1: Base spell-level cost conversion

[sblock=The conversion]
Taking from the Psionics PP Cost/level:

Code:
Level:		0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
Cost		0/1	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17

We multiply by 4 to convert to mana points (MP) to get:

Code:
Level:		0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
Cost:		1	4	12	20	28	36	44	52	60	68

Thus, a 1st level spell would cost 4 MP, etc.

Spells no longer automatically scale.

Scaling cost (per extra level of power) is:

Code:
Level:		0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
Cost:		N/a	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17

By this, a wiz/sorc casting Magic Missile (a 1st level spell) at 1st level would spend 4 MP. Cast at 9th level, fully scaled, he would spend 8 MP (base cost of 4 MP +1 for each of the scaled levels – 3, 5, 7, 9).

Casting Fireball (a 3rd level spell), at 5th level (minimum required caster level) would cost 20 MP (for 5d6 hpd). Cast at 10th level, fully scaled, it would cost 45 MP (base cost of 20 MP +5 for each scaled level – 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) for the same wiz/sorc.

How this works with the Cure Spells is a little more difficult. We either have to allow automatic scaling (since it adds only +1 or 2/level up to a certain maximum), make them spend +1/extra scaled hp (or more, depending upon the level of the Cure spell), or change the Cure spells to add extra die (d4?) rather than just extra hp and scale accordingly. My inclination would be to add extra die (d4 per d8 of the spell), but it might make the higher-level Cure spells seem redundant (unless you just add the extra base amount healed to each spell for scaling – potentially making them much more powerful). Do whatever feels right for your group.

Shield of Faith (cleric 1) would cost 4 MP at 1st level for a +2 bonus. Cast at 18th level (max scaled), it would cost 7 MP (base cost 4 MP +1/scaled level).

Not being completely familiar with all the spells, there may be others requiring slight modification (like the Cure spells did). I’d appreciate hearing how your group chooses to modify them.

Metamagic feats simply change the spell’s cost to that of the appropriate level.

For example, Empower Spell used on the above Fireball would make the Fireball’s cost that of a 5th level, rather than a 3rd level spell (including scaling costs). In theory, this could make the cost of the spell exceed that of a 9th level spell (if allowed in your game). Simply add 8 to the cost of the spell and 4 to the scaling cost for each level beyond 9.

Why 4 Mana Points (MP) instead of 1? Multiple reasons. First, scaling costs seemed more reasonable to me at ¼ of the spell’s cost than the psionic equivalent. Second, it makes my changes to Specialists seem better. Third, I wanted to.

Of course, to implement these changes, we need to change the base classes a bit.[/sblock]
Part 2: Base spellcasting classes

Basically, I calculated the MP/level for each class by converting total spells/day for each level into MP by the MP cost/level table.

All spellcasters become spontaneous spellcasters. All spellcasters must rest for 8 hours to fully recharge their mana. You may choose to allow your spellcasters to regain a portion of their total mana if the rest for a portion of 8 hours. All spellcasters must have a primary stat score of 10 + a spell’s level to cast that spell (just like before).

The equivalent Psion MP amount is listed under the Mage heading.

[sblock=Wizard/Sorcerer (Mage)]

Wizard and Sorcerer are really no longer two separate classes. They are the same class of arcane casters, merely differentiated by which stat they use. Wizards use their INT to determine bonus mana, spells known, DC, etc. Sorcerers use CHA. You can keep all that nonsense about draconic heritage for the sorcerer if you really want to…

Bonus mana is equal to Stat mod times twice their level.

A caster gains access to a number of 0-level spells equal to ½ their Stat mod per level (minimum 1/level).

Maximum number of spells known is equal to their Stat mod per level, minimum 1/level (non-magically modified, unless they are permanent modifications). These may be chosen from any spell level the caster has access to. 0-level spells are not included in this (unless the caster wishes to learn extra 0 level spells). I suppose you could have “temporary” stat increases (i.e. items) increase the number of spells known (after 24 hours of time wearing said item AND learning the new spells), but those spells would be lost if the item was removed. (I’d probably do this for psions, too.) See the table below for maximum spell level known. I’ve included a list of the converted cost for Psions for comparison.

Mages must still be taught their spells, or learn them from books or scrolls, or create them themselves.

My suggestion would be that spells requiring more than 30 minutes of casting time, and all symbols, glyphs, and other such inscribed spells be designated as “book” spells. These spells are so intricate or complicated that they require a “spellbook” as a guide – they cannot be cast without being read from a book, and as such do not count against the maximum number of spells known (you must still pay the MP cost, however). If on a magic scroll, they still take the full casting time, but require no MP expenditure (the scroll is destroyed in the process, of course).

Specialists: A mage may specialize in one school of magic. All spells cast from this school cost ¾ the normal amount of mana (some rounding up may be required for scaled spells). They still pick 2 prohibited schools (1 with Divination). Your DM may give you the option to cast spells from one of these schools at double (or more) the normal mana cost.

Familiars: A mage now has another good reason to gain a familiar: extra mana. A familiar grants a mage extra mana equal to the mage’s Stat mod per level. If the familiar is killed, the mage immediately loses mana equal to the amount the familiar granted him, in addition to the other penalties associated with familiar death.

Code:
[b]Level	Wiz/Sorc	max spell	Psion
	MP/level	level known	PP (MP conversion)[/b]
1	17		1st		2 (8)
2	22		1st		6 (24)
3	26		2nd		11 (44)
4	66		2nd		17 (68)
5	78		3rd		25 (100)
6	150		3rd		35 (140)
7	162		4th		46 (184)
8	286		4th		58 (232)
9	334		5th		72 (288)
10	470		5th		88 (352)
11	534		6th		106 (424)
12	702		6th		126 (504)
13	782		7th		147 (588)
14	982		7th		170 (680)
15	1078		8th		195 (780)
16	1310		8th		221 (884)
17	1422		9th		250 (1000)
18	1686		9th		280 (1120)
19	1814		9th		311 (1244)
20	1950		9th		343 (1372)

[/sblock]
[sblock=Cleric]

Clerics still use their WIS to determine all of the important aspects of their spells. Bonus mana is equal to WIS mod times twice their level.

A cleric has access to a number of 0-level spells equal to ½ of their WIS mod per level (min 1/level).

Maximum number of spells known is equal to their Stat mod per level, minimum 1/level (non-magically modified, unless they are permanent modifications). These may be chosen from any spell level the caster has access to. 0-level spells are not included in this (unless the caster wishes to learn extra 0 level spells). I suppose you could have “temporary” stat increases (i.e. items) increase the number of spells known (after 24 hours of time wearing said item AND learning the new spells), but those spells would be lost if the item was removed. See the table below for maximum spell level known. (I’d probably do this for psions, too.)

Clerics know 1 Domain spell per Domain per Spell level. Domain spells may only be cast with Domain MP. Domain MP can only be used to cast Domain spells.

Clerics lean their spells directly from their deity, but may also learn them from other clerics or from books or scrolls. Change this as you see fit for your campaign.

Code:
[b]Level	Cleric MP	Max spell	Domain MP
	per level	level known	per level[/b]
1	7		1st		4
2	12		1st		4
3	24		2nd		16
4	41		2nd		16
5	61		3rd		36
6	73		3rd		36
7	126		4th		64
8	174		4th		64
9	222		5th		100
10	286		5th		100
11	356		6th		144
12	434		6th		144
13	526		7th		196
14	622		7th		196
15	738		8th		256
16	850		8th		256
17	990		9th		324
18	1118		9th		324
19	1274		9th		324
20	1402		9th		324

[/sblock]
[sblock=Druid]

Druids still use their WIS to determine all of the important aspects of their spells. Bonus mana is equal to WIS mod times twice their level.

A druid has access to a number of 0-level spells equal to ½ of their WIS mod per level (min 1/level).

Maximum number of spells known is equal to their Stat mod per level, minimum 1/level (non-magically modified, unless they are permanent modifications). These may be chosen from any spell level the caster has access to. 0-level spells are not included in this (unless the caster wishes to learn extra 0 level spells). I suppose you could have “temporary” stat increases (i.e. items) increase the number of spells known (after 24 hours of time wearing said item AND learning the new spells), but those spells would be lost if the item was removed. See the table below for maximum spell level known. (I’d probably do this for psions, too.)

Code:
[b]Level	Druid MP	Max spell
	per level	level known[/b]
1	7		1st
2	12		1st
3	24		2nd
4	41		2nd
5	61		3rd
6	73		3rd
7	126		4th
8	174		4th
9	222		5th
10	286		5th
11	356		6th
12	434		6th
13	526		7th
14	622		7th
15	738		8th
16	850		8th
17	990		9th
18	1118		9th
19	1274		9th
20	1402		9th

[/sblock]
[sblock=Bard]

Bards still use their CHA to determine all of the important aspects of their spells.

Bonus mana is equal to CHA mod times twice their level.

Bards begin knowing a number of 0-level spells equal to their CHA mod (minimum 1). They gain 1 every 4 levels thereafter.

Maximum number of spells known is equal to their ½ their CHA mod per level, minimum 1/level (non-magically modified, unless they are permanent modifications). These may be chosen from any spell level the caster has access to. 0-level spells are not included in this (unless the caster wishes to learn extra 0 level spells). I suppose you could have “temporary” stat increases (i.e. items) increase the number of spells known (after 24 hours of time wearing said item AND learning the new spells), but those spells would be lost if the item was removed. See the table below for maximum spell level known.

Code:
[b]Level	Bard  MP	Max spell
	per level	level known[/b]
1	2		0th
2	3		1st
3	7		1st
4	11		2nd
5	27		2nd
6	39		2nd
7	39		3rd
8	71		3rd
9	91		3rd
10	91		4th
11	139		4th
12	167		4th
13	167		5th
14	232		5th
15	272		5th
16	284		6th
17	348		6th
18	420		6th
19	500		6th
20	544		6th

[/sblock]
[sblock=Paladin/Ranger]

Both use WIS as their primary stat. “0” in the chart below means that they may cast and learn spells starting at that level only if they have bonus mana available at that level. Bonus mana is equal to WIS mod times twice their level. Maximum number of spells known is equal to ½ WIS mod times level (min 1/lev).

Code:
[b]Level	Pally/Rang MP	Pally/Rang max
	per level	spell level known[/b]
1	--	
2	--	
3	--	
4	0		1st
5	0	
6	4	
7	4	
8	4 		2nd
9	4	
10	16	
11	16 		3rd
12	36	
13	36	
14	40 		4th
15	68	
16	80	
17	100	
18	104	
19	164	
20	192

[/sblock]
Part 3: Extra Options

The following are some optional rules I’ve come up with. Use them if you like them, ignore them if you don’t. It is likely that they will make spellcasters somewhat more powerful (which I know many do not like).

[sblock=Lines and Nodes]

Life generates magical energy (mana). This energy flows out of every living thing and, like water, eventually gathers into streams and rivers. These are called Lines. These Lines eventually cross each other at certain points. These points are known as Nodes.

Lines and Nodes occur everywhere, but they are more likely to be found in places with an abundant amount of living creatures

Lines and Nodes are potent, but dangerous, sources of magical power. A caster who has reached a sufficient level of power may learn to tap these powerful resources, at certain risk to himself. See the corresponding feats.

-----------Edit update-------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a Full round action to Tap a Line or Node. It can be attempted as a Standard Action, but the DC increases by 3 for a Line and by 6 for a Node. If attempted as a Move Action, the DC increases by 5 for a Line and 10 for a Node (not cumulative with the Standard Action cost.)
----------------/edit---------------------------------------------------------------------

Tap Line [metamagic]
Prereq: ability to cast 7th level spells

For a cost of 50 mana (or 2 points of ability damage to both CON and appropriate casting Stat if out of mana) per Line per attempt, a caster may attempt to Tap a Line to gain mana. Tapping requires a successful d20 check against a DC of 30 (add caster level and Stat mod to roll -- cannot “take 10”). Success means the Line is Tapped, failure by less than 5 means you failed. Failure by 5-8 means you may not attempt to Tap that Line again until you have gained a level. Failure by >8 means you were “Burned” by the Line, and suffer 1d6 damage. The DC increases by 5 per additional Line attempted.

Benefit: If you have successfully Tapped a Line, you gain mana equal to your Stat mod per round per Tapped Line, up to your maximum mana amount. You may remain Tapped for 1 min/level. You may Tap 1 Line per Stat mod (mage with 17 INT may Tap up to 3 lines).

Special: If you are Tapped and take damage, you must make a successful Concentration check vs DC 30+hpd taken+5 per extra Line. Success means you are fine and remain Tapped. Failure by <10 means you suffer 1d10 hpd per Line and lose a corresponding amount of mana, but remain Tapped. Failure by 10 or more means you suffer 4d4 hpd per Line, lose a corresponding amount of mana, lose access to the Line(s) and may not Tap again for 2 hours per Line.

Tap Node [metamagic]
Prereq: ability to cast 9th level spells

For a cost of 75 mana (or 3 points of ability damage to both CON and appropriate casting Stat if out of mana) per Node per attempt, a caster may attempt to Tap a Node do gain mana. Tapping requires a successful d20 check against a DC of 40 (add caster level and Stat mod to roll – cannot “take 10”). Success means the Node is Tapped, failure by less than 5 means you failed. Failure by 5-8 means you may not attempt to Tap that Node again until you have gained a level. Failure by >8 means you were “Burned” by the Node, and suffer1d6 damage per Line in the Node. The DC increases by 10 per additional Node or Line attempted.

Benefit: If you have successfully Tapped a Node, you gain mana equal to 1½ times your Stat mod per round per Line of the node, up to your maximum mana amount. You may remain Tapped for 1 min/level. You may Tap a Node containing Lines equal to 1+1 per Stat mod (mage with 17 INT may Tap a node with up to 4 lines).

Special: If you are Tapped and take damage, you must make a successful Concentration check vs DC 40+hpd taken+5 per extra Line in the Node. Success means you are fine and remain Tapped. Failure by <10 means you suffer 1d12 hpd per Line in the Node and lose a corresponding amount of mana, but remain Tapped. Failure by 10 or more means you suffer 4d6 hpd per Line in the Node, lose a corresponding amount of mana, lose access to the Node and may not Tap again for 2 hours per Line in the Node, and may not cast any spells for 1 hour per Line in the Node.

Frequency of Lines and Nodes

You may use this table to determine the frequency of Lines and Nodes in your campaign, or make up your own.

Code:
[b]Environment/area	# of Lines	Chance of Node[/b]
Arctic			1d4		5% chance/Line >1
Desert			1d4		5% chance/Line >1
Forest			1d12		10% chance per Line (min 2 Lines)
Jungle			2d8		10% chance per Line (min 2 Lines)
Mountain		1d6		7% chance per Line (min 2 Lines)
Plains/cultivated	1d10		10% chance per Line (min 2 Lines)
Marsh/swamp		1d10		10% chance per Line (min 2 Lines)
“Urban”			1d4/1000 pop	7% chance per Line (min 2 Lines)

[/sblock]
[sblock=Wells]

While Lines and Nodes are like raging rapids of boiling water, a Mana Well is like a deep, calm pool of cool water. Any caster with the appropriate feat can create one of these pools.

Mana Well [metamagic]

Prereq: Ability to cast 7th level spells

For a one-time cost of 1000 mana and 1 month of time, you may attempt to create a permanent mana receptacle, which you may later fill and use without risk. This receptacle must be a large, heavy, immovable object, >80 cubic feet (2x2x20) in size. 75% of this must be in contact with or buried in the ground at all times. The Well is destroyed and all mana lost if the well is moved >5 feet in any direction.

A well may hold maximum mana equal to twice the creator’s maximum mana at the time of creation. The mana stored in a Well is accessible to the creator and any other spellcaster within 10 feet (per individual caster level) of the Well. The creator may “lock” access to the Well by spending an additional 500 mana and 1 additional week of time at the creation of the well. Spending 12 mana and 5 minutes of time may grant or deny access to any one individual the creator chooses. Any number of people may be granted
access to a Well.

To be useful, the Well must be filled from a caster’s personal reserves. Transfer rate is 4 mana per minute, filled by any caster with access to the Well.

A caster with access can withdraw mana equal to their Stat mod times their level per round as a standard action.

Having more than 1 Well within 1 mile of each other will cause each of them to destabilize, leaking mana at a rate of 12 mp per minute. There is also a 5% chance per day (non-cumulative) of each Well failing completely and permanently.[/sblock]
[sblock=Addenda to Lines/Nodes and Wells]Part 1
You may not be tapped into both a Well and a Line/Node at the same time. The magical resonance created violently destabilizes both the Well and the Line/Node. The unfortunate caster automatically suffers the full effect of "failure by 10 or more", listed under "Special" for Lines/Nodes. Those within 10' of the caster suffer the "failure by < 10" listed under "Special". In addition, the Well violently fails, exploding and causing 1d6 points of damage per 10 mana in the well to all within 100' of the Well.

Part 2
Those with access to a Well may, for an additional per-use cost, draw mana from that Well at a greater distance.

For a cost of 4 mana each use (a move-equivalent action), the caster may access a Well when he is outside the 10' per caster level range. Transporting mana accross a distance is costly, however. Within 1 mile of the Well, you "burn off" mana equal to the amount you withdraw (draw 34 mana, lose a total of 68 mana from the Well).

Within 10 miles of the Well, you lose mana equal to twice what you withdraw (draw 34, lose 102 mana total from the Well).

Within 50 miles, this lose changes to 3x the amount drawn.

Within 100 miles, it becomes 4x the amount drawn.

It is not possible to access a Well outside the 100 mile range.[/sblock]
[sblock=Bloodpower]

All life creates magical energy, or mana. However, not all living creatures can use the mana they create. Some have learned how to wrest this mana from those who own it.

Bloodpower Ritual [metamagic]
Prereq: ability to cast 1st level spells, any Evil

Benefit: For a cost of 2 mana per use, you may, through ritual torture involving slashing and/or piercing tools, gain power from others. This ritual must last for ½ hour per level or Hit Die of the victim. At the end of the ritual, you gain mana equal to 1 per CON per level or Hit Die of the victim. This may temporarily exceed your maximum mana amount by ½. Excess fades after hour equal to Stat mod times 2. As an example, a 5th level Fighter with a CON of 15 would, after 2½ hours of ritual, give you 75 mana.

Spellcasters grant even more mana, giving an additional amount equal to their maximum mana. Creatures with spell-like abilities also grant extra mana. This mana is equal to the level cost of the ability times the number of uses of the ability. Psi-like abilities are the same, except that you multiply the psi-like ability amount by 4. All of these extra amounts are cumulative.

If you intentionally stop the ritual before it is fully completed, you retain mana equal to 1/2 what had been accrued up to that point.

For example, if you are perfoming the ritual on a 12th level Fighter with a CON of 20 (a 6 hour ritual), and stop after 3 hours, you would have accrued 120 mana (12x20, divided by 2). You would then get to keep 60 mana (half of what had accrued). The Fighter in question would still be alive, but effectively at 1/2 CON and 1/2 HP until healed (since the ritual was 1/2 done).

If the ritual is interruped, you retain only 1/4 of what you had accrued (30 mana, using the same scenario).[/sblock]
[sblock=Dispel Magic]
Dispel Magic becomes much more of a threat to spellcasters. Another option is added to the list of ways to cast the spell. If cast directly on a caster, it depletes their MP.

Dispel removes mana equal to the amount spent on the spell, -12. It is scalable to every odd caster level. So, a 12th level mage casting Dispel Magic on another in combat, maxed to 12th level would remove 51 mana from his opponent (base 28, +7 at 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 11th, -12).

I would imagine that potions and wands of Dispel Magic would be a danger to cause many a caster to sweat...[/sblock]
[sblock=how to manage High-level spell spamming]
Casting spells becomes more difficult, and more dangerous, at higher spell levels. This is not a problem if you only cast one every so often. However, if spells at 7th level or higher are cast within 2 rounds of each other, there is a risk.

The first such spell cast contains no risk to the caster. If the caster uses another such spell within 2 rounds of the first (before the 4th round, if cast the first round), he must make a check. The DC is equal to 10 + spell level + 2 per high level spell cast within the time frame. If Bobo the 18th level Wizard casts a 7th level spell his first round of combat, and then casts another in his second round, and then waits a round and casts an 8th level spell, the DC's would be as follows:

None for the 1st 7th level spell, 19 for the 2nd, and 22 for the 8th.

A failed DC causes the caster to lose mana equal to twice the spell level (14 for a 7th level spell), and take damage equal to the spell's level, and become Fatigued. If already Fatigued, he becomes exhausted. If Exhausted, he becomes Unconsious and may not cast any spell above 1st level for 1 hour, gaining access to another spell level every hour thereafter.[/sblock]
 

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My greatest concern: the volume of math. For someone really good at quick calculations, this is not a big deal. For the other 85% of the world, the sheer volumes of mana points can quickly become unmanageable.

DC
 

Well, caculators can take care of the math with relatively little annoyance. It can seem a bit daunting, though. After a few tries, it should get easier to use.
 

I've created my own mana-point systems in the past, and my own observations are that the main issue that they all seem to share - which you've started to notice yourself - is the fact that it simply becomes too powerful to allow a mage to effectively swap out the "power" to cast a dozen 1st and 2nd level spells for a single 9th level spell. In your system above, a 17th level wizard could cast 20 9th level spells a day (almost 21). Sure, that means he can't cast hardly any lower level spells, and sure by your rule he'd have to wait a few rounds between each one, but in the end... he can still cast 20 9th level spells. That kind of power is - well, godly. And a far, far cry above the 1 9th level spell he can normally cast at that level.

The main problem is that the power of DnD spells each spell-level does NOT increase linearly - it's closer to exponential, if it can be mapped at all. You could basically double the cost per spell level, and that still doesn't seem to be close enough in power, even though a 9th level spell would cost 16 times a level 1 spell. Quite frankly, the difference between a 9th level spell and a 1st level spell is more like 64 times the cost. Or maybe more. I mean, who can really even compare gate with mage armor? And just being able to give up 20 or even 40 castings of mage armor to get one casting of gate isn't enough. Not even close.

The only way I've personally been able to create a system that even comes close to measuring up to the way the SRD lays it out has involved so much math and so many tables that the entire thing becomes effectively worthless. In the end, spell point systems are a really, really good idea that just do not work well with the current DnD spell level system, and the only way they could work and still be balanced would be so complex that no one wants to really play that way.

Just my own two cents.
 

Although my magic system wouldn't work with mana, I like the idea. The ley-lines and nodes or nexi adaptation is particularly nice. The idea of a well of magical power is freaking awesome. If only it wouldn't require so much adaptation for me to use.

Anyway, points for creativity and inventiveness. :D Keep up the good work
 

I've always liked the idea of "organic" magic that draws somehow directly from the person. D&D's memorized spells work well, but they also feel a bit detached. Even if this system has some quirks that need to be worked out, I'm really glad to see ideas being developed in this area.
 

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

Evilbob: Yeah, I have been noticing the High-level spell problem. I still don't have a workable solution, but I may eventually add some type of ability-burn damage (similar to the psionics overchannel stuff) to successive castings of high-level (7th or higher) spells. If only the magic levels were as balanced as the psionics levels...

papastebu and glass_snake: Thanks! :)
 

In a campaign I played in about 3 years ago, the Dm used his own Mana pool system which I thought was cool and simple.

Mana points: add up all spell slots and bonus spells from a high spell casting stat. For example a Sorc with a 18+4 CHA who gets 5 zero levels spells and 5 first level spells. He has 10 mana points.

Casting: Spells take up 1+spell level mana points.

Learning spells and max spell level: As normal for class.

Meta magic: Meta increase the mana points used to cast the spell by the slots it would of normally increased it by. For example: If you where to cast a quicken magic missile it would take 6 mana points rather than 2. The level still increase to determine the DC, and you can not make a spell exceed the highest spell level you can cast.

Coupled with a few ideas of my own, this is the center piece of spell casting in my next home brew. Its simple quick, and easy to understand.

---Rusty
 

DungeonMaester said:
Its simple quick, and easy to understand.
This is actually a pretty good system, and goes a long way toward capping the rampant over-powered problem at high levels. It's strange in that having more spells (even zero-level spells) becomes the most important aspect (suddenly +stat gear is even more useful), but a 17th level wizard with a 24 Int would have - if I read you correctly - 44 mana. They would still be able to cast 4 9th-level spells, which is still more than 1, but it would leave them with only 4 mana left.

It also does a good job of balancing the low-level benefit of spontaniously casting (a level 1 wizard couldn't cast as many spells in this system, which seems fair) and it seems to be one of the first mana systems I've seen that still gives a solid reason to play a sorc over a wizard, once everyone can spontaniously cast.

At the risk of hijacking this thread completely, do you mind to share the other tweaks were you going to make?


Edit:
Two other quick thoughts on this system:

- first, a 1st level Sorc with 18 Cha would only have 9 mana points (if I'm reading you correctly) - they only get 1 bonus spell

- second, Paladins and Rangers may need a special rule, since they could not cast any 1st level spells once they are able (a 4th level Paladin with a 16 Wis would have 1 mana point, which isn't enough to cast a first level spell).
 
Last edited:

DungeonMaester said:
In a campaign I played in about 3 years ago, the Dm used his own Mana pool system which I thought was cool and simple.

Mana points: add up all spell slots and bonus spells from a high spell casting stat. For example a Sorc with a 18+4 CHA who gets 5 zero levels spells and 5 first level spells. He has 10 mana points.

Casting: Spells take up 1+spell level mana points.

Learning spells and max spell level: As normal for class.

Meta magic: Meta increase the mana points used to cast the spell by the slots it would of normally increased it by. For example: If you where to cast a quicken magic missile it would take 6 mana points rather than 2. The level still increase to determine the DC, and you can not make a spell exceed the highest spell level you can cast.

Coupled with a few ideas of my own, this is the center piece of spell casting in my next home brew. Its simple quick, and easy to understand.

---Rusty

That actually looks very similar to my homebrew system. Only difference is that I use (Spell Level=# of Mana points) instead of (Spell Level+1=# of Mana points). Where did you come up with the idea for yours? I adapted mine from the Netheril 2e system.
 

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