Mutants and Masterminds, edition differences

[Derro]

How big of a revision was the second edition of this game? I'm fair;y familiar with the first edition although I've never played. I have the book and have read it cover to cover. My understanding of the rules is pretty solid. From the glimpses I've gotten of the 2nd edition the concepts appear to be the same.

Are there any really radical changes?

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Are there any really radical changes?

Several.

First big one is the costs of things, namely ability scores, feats and skills, with the later two being much cheaper (1pp per feet, 1pp per 4 skill ranks). Also, ability scores don't cap at 20.

Next up is powers... Super [Ability Score] powers are gone (except Super Strength which works quite differently), replaced with Enhanced [Ability Score], which just boosts the value of your ability score. Many other powers were totally revamped, as was the whole notion of power feats and linked powers.

Drawbacks are split into Complications (roleplaying hooks that give you more Hero Points; btw, you only start with 1 Hero Point per session) and Drawbacks (game mechanic based disads that give you more PP just like in 1e). Batman's vow to fight crime at the expense of his social life? Complication. Superman's weakness to kryptonite? Drawback. Peter Parker's so-called life? Complications galore.

Also, the number of PP per PL are divorced from one another. While it is advised that PCs stick with the 15 PP per PL, NPCs can throw that out the window, making it possible to have a PL 20 bad guy built on only 150 PP. Also, what was PL 20 in 1e due to needing all those points can be built much lower and still be effective, if not more so. Case in point would be Atomic Brain; 1e was PL 20, most 2e conversions peg him around PL 14 if I remember right, and he loses very little in translation.

Those are pretty much the highlights. Personally I found M&M2e to be a vastly improved game from 1e, as do a lot of other folks, but not everyone shares that opinion.

 

[jdrakeh]

Re: Donovan

I find M&M 2e to be a much better supers game. As an all-around game system easily scaled to things other than spandex-clad heroes, I think M&M 1e is better.

 

[Derro]

As an all-around game system easily scaled to things other than spandex-clad heroes, I think M&M 1e is better.

That is good to know. I've been toying with M&M to make templates and class features for other games. On paper everything seems to work fine. Knowing that I'm using the version that is better suited to that sort of operation makes feel confident in my new project.

I recently read What If... Daredevil was Dr. Strange's Disciple and it inspired me to create a quasi-supers ninjas and mystics campaign. My intention is to use d20 Modern for the basic stuff and build power suites with M&M. It sounds to me like M&Mv1 is the better fit since I'm not at all concerned about covering a broad range or scope of powers.

The Complications/Drawbacks mechanic sounds interesting but I've already ripped of GURPS for a lot of that stuff. Tying it to Action/Hero Points gives me an ide-er though...

Thank you gentlemen.

 

[Jackelope King]

To be honest, I've had no problem converting M&M 2e to a full-on genre-neutral toolbox. Then again, I don't own 1e, so I couldn't tell you if 1e would be easier to do that with or 2e is, but from what I understand, 2e is generally the cleaner, preferred system. There are still some balance issues, but all in all it plays like a tight game for me.

 

[jonrog1]

I'd like to also reccomend using 2E for all-purpose. The powers scale better than in 1E. Also, they've got AGENTS OF FREEDOM sourcebook for spy games, and mecha and fantasy warriors coming up.

 

[The Lost Muse]

Fantasy Warriors, or, as I prefer to call it... the book that's making me upgrade to 2e

 

[Bretbo]

Green Ronin has a conversion guide that fully details how to convert from 1st ed. to 2nd. The guide is in this PDF doc here.

 

[Aus_Snow]

To be honest, I've had no problem converting M&M 2e to a full-on genre-neutral toolbox.

Hm. . . What do you need to do to or with M&M 2e, to make it that? A 'full-on genre-neutral toolbox' I mean. Any other sourcebooks needed, for example? Or just some tinkering / reimagining / rewording?

I've heard this kind of thing quite a bit, and am exceedingly curious as to how it's done, and how easy it is to do. M&M is awesome, without doubt, but if it can do all that too. . .

Well then, I might end up stepping sideways, systems-wise.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Hm. . . What do you need to do to or with M&M 2e, to make it that? A 'full-on genre-neutral toolbox' I mean. Any other sourcebooks needed, for example? Or just some tinkering / reimagining / rewording?

Mostly re-imagining and rethinking your assumptions.
For example, you can run a fantastic Connan game around PL 6 or PL 7. The party will be more powerful than most other humans they meet (PL 2 to 5) and able to fight big monsters but only if they are smart and/or lucky. Best of all, they only go up in raw power (PL) when you want them to.
Characters buy an Attack of +4 and then Attack Focus for their primary combat style (ranged weapons or melee weapons), and some Equipment points into weapons, to bring themselves up to their PL caps with their attack/damage. They can use some more equipment points to come up to their PL caps via Shields and Armor. Suddenly, the guy with a 14 strength and 14 constitution has a +8 to hit for +5 damage and a +7 defense and +7 toughness.
Magic, in such a game, would be a collection of spells done up using the power rules.
Need a magic item in a hurry? Just stat up an appropriate device.
Etc., etc.
This trick also works to build the Spartans from the new 300 movie.

A modern game can be just as quick and simple. If you want super-spies, or just some good general advice for such a campaign, then Agents of Freedom is a good book to pick up but it's a long way from necessary. Everything you need is in the core rules. That said, feel free to increase the starting power points to get some really talented/experience operators at the table.

Sci-fi is just as simple. Giant robots? Either devices or an alternate form (your choice, oh guy running the game). Heck, you could even make them be equipment, though that means that giant robots are as mass-producible as handguns, in that setting.
Laser swords and mind powers? Done.
And so forth.

D&D style fantasy adventure? Most first level D&D characters are about a PL 4. By PL 10, they're equivalent to most level 12 to 15 characters. By PL 20, they can merrily stomp around the cosmos, slaying divine pantheons, just like many epic level parties.

M&M 2e can do just about any type of gaming you want. It was built primarily for superheroes, but there are super heroes from every genre imaginable. Thus, M&M can support almost every genre imaginable.