Mouse Guard question

[earthtrip]

I just heard about the Mouse Guard RPG and have a few questions I was hoping to find answers to that I haven't found while searching the internet.

A quick background:
I've played the 4th edition and pathfinder starter sets with my kids and while they really enjoyed the games we had, I ended up having to basically play the game for them and be the DM since they're not quite at the point where they want to sit down and read the players handbook and really try and understand what the game is all about. They can add up dice and get the basic gist of the game but they don't seem super interested in learning their spells or what their different weapons actually do and why to use one or the other in a given situation. This led me down the path of buying Mice & Mystics which I bought based on all the good reviews on Amazon and elsewhere on the web. I have played it maybe 10 times with my two kids.. Unfortunately I really don't like M&M. It's not the mice concept or the story I don't like but the way the game plays out I (and for the most parts my kids too) find boring and the fact that when time runs out you have to start all over (which happens quite a lot) is pretty maddening IMO. I enjoy the story part but between rules confusion, I seem to write a list of questions every time I play that I have to find answers to on plaid hat games forums I'm just not interested in continuing to play and will probably sell it on Ebay. Just for reference I also tried Wrath of Ashardalon as a go between and we all immediately disliked and found it pretty much ridiculous as a game.

The few things I don't understand about Mouse Guard are as follows:

1) Can you have the concept of a campaign or is Mouse Guard always one shot games? Without having read the rules I'm not clear if you gain some kind of "experience" or something that makes the character grow over time. Do you end up creating new characters over and over or do you continue to play the mouse you created mission after mission/campaign after campaign?
2) Can you play with a small group of 1 GM and 1 or 2 "players"? That's my likely scenario all the time unless I can convince my wife to play
3) How much prep is required?
4) I've read some reviews saying replayability is limited and the game can feel the same after a few missions. This seems kind of weird seeing as how it's an RPG and assuming the game allows the GM to create missions that are unique I don't understand how you couldn't continue to make the game interesting.

I was planning on buying the 2nd ed box set and the first Mouse guard comic book to get a feel for the story as I've read the books are great.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[steenan]

1) Yes, you can have a campaign in Mouse Guard. The change of seasons works much better in a longer game than in a one-shot. The characters grow and change in several different ways:
- Skills increase through usage. It's not rapid, though, very far from D&D's zero-to-hero.
- Nature goes up or down (usually down), depending on what the PC does
- Traits can change (IIRC they are changed by the group's vote during winter season)
- Belief and instinct may be rewritten by the player

2) It may be tough. Facing challenges that are too hard for a single mouse to handle and helping one another to overcome them is very typical. With only one or two players yopu lose a lot both on intra-party play and on mechanical effectiveness. The second part can be handled by reducing difficulties, but it will be an extra effort for the GM.

3) More than zero, but not much. About 20-30 minutes for a 4 hour session (two adventures).A little more if you need to prepare a number of mice or weasel NPCs (full stats, compared to animals that only have Nature).

4) There's a lot of things to explore in Mouse Guard. Dangers and challenges of the environment, social and political matters among the mice, external conflict with weasels, friendships and rivalries, romance, dark secrets... I wouldn't use Mouse Guard for a long campaign intended to go on for years - but for 10 sessions or so, it's very good.


The only part I'll warn you about is the conflict mechanics. Maybe it's corrected in the 2nd edition, but in 1st it just didn't work as written (4 actions to choose from, with intended rock-paper-scissors setup, but in reality one was just better than the others). If it wasn't changed, you'll need a house rule.

 

[earthtrip]

Thanks steenan. Very helpful information! Much appreciated.

 

[Nytmare]

Although I absolutely love Mouse Guard, I'd caution you against thinking it might be a good fit for kids. How old are they?

If the extent of their abilities at this point is adding dice and playing make believe, I'd say play to what they're interested in and shoot for that instead. The mechanics of something like MG probably aren't going to be as good a fit for them as just telling them a story and letting them make decisions for their characters.

 

[earthtrip]

They're 9 and 12. Seems like they should be able to play based on everything I've read online but I guess I won't really know until I read through the rules a bit more to see how much they have to learn to be able to play.

 

[Nytmare]

A 12 year old might be able to grasp most of it, but as for the 9 year old, it would really, really depend on the kid.

I've always thought that in games like D&D, at the bare bones level, having an understanding of the rules and the system weren't necessary to play. As long as the person running things knew what they were doing, the players could still still be easily lead through an adventure by just going through the paces and rolling when they were told to roll.

In Mouse Guard, the mechanics and resolution system can be more complex (though maybe not more complicated). It's usually not as simple as "roll higher than this target number" and it involves a level of abstraction that even manages to confuse a lot of adults.

 

[earthtrip]

Yeah I tend to agree. My dilemma with D&D was I didn't/don't know the rules/system well enough to keep a game interesting for kids.. fishlike attention span and all. That was why my comment about them not wanting to sit down and just read the PHB to learn at least some of the rules or what their spells or weapons did make GM'ing not something I was interested in doing with them after a few attempts. The funny thing is they loved it.. I'm the one who didn't like the stress/chore of being the GM, all the NPC's, all the PC's, etc all at the same time without really knowing what I was doing.

Mouse Guard sounds like it's probably not what I was hoping for in terms of ease of playability.

 

[Nytmare]

My son played in his first RPG when he was maybe five. It wasn't really any recognizable system beyond the names of the standard D&D attributes. Aside from that, everything was just assigned a die, and the higher the number you rolled, the better you were at it. A weakling might have a strength that was a D6, a weightlifter might have a d12, and to be able to move a log off a path, you might need to roll a 5 or better. All that the game was, was bouncing around fairytale tropes and reinforcing his knowledge of colors and numbers.

Through elementary and middle school, we continued to play role playing games, though they weren't always long lived. Mostly I'd try to pattern them around whatever his interests were at the time, and then pare down whatever version of D&D I was currently playing with my friends so that it fit the mold of the stories he wanted me to tell him. I'd work with him and try to pattern them after the TV shows and video games he was watching or playing, using his knowledge base and understanding of how he thought those worlds worked. Over those years he played as versions of Ben Ten, the Incredible Hulk, Robin Hood, and a sword and shield carrying Pokemon trainer named Link.

If I were you, I'd just strike up a conversation or two with them about whatever stories they are most excited by, and whatever parts of the Pathfinder games they liked the most, and shuffle those things together.