Mother Cyst and Necrotic Spells.
- Thread starter Joker
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griff_goodbeard
First Post
I love the flavor of these spells. That said, I feel they are a bit weak overall (although they can be devestating agaist the right opponent). The thing is that the target has to fail two saves for them to be effective. And until you're high enough level to cast quicken the cost in actions sucks too.
Darren Ravenshaw
First Post
As griff_goodbeard said, flavor wise they are cool. As for being effect in combat, not so much, as there are some limitations with Necrotic Cyst;
1) Range: Touch(For Clerics this is not so bad, for Sorcerer/Wizards not the best thing, though Spectral Hand can negate this limitation). The spell doesn't say that a attack roll, or touch attack roll are required to hit, so it might be implied that the touch automatically hits, strange.
2) Fortitude Negates: As a second level spell the DC is only 12 + ability mod. + other bonuses if any. At higher levels this can be a problem.
3) Protection from Evil: Or a similar spell prevents the cyst from forming. Some creatures have Protection from Evil or a similar ability, either as a supernatural aility or as a spell-like ability. So some enemies will be immune to this spell.
4) Time: Casting time is a Standard Action, and this spell is required before any of the other spells can be used.
Of course vs. a creature with a low Fort save these spell can let you own it...hard. Either by using the other spells, or just the fact they take extra damage from undead attacks and suffer a -2 to their saves vs. Necromancy spells.
And Necrotic Empowerment is a powerful spell, worth the feat by it's self.
1) Range: Touch(For Clerics this is not so bad, for Sorcerer/Wizards not the best thing, though Spectral Hand can negate this limitation). The spell doesn't say that a attack roll, or touch attack roll are required to hit, so it might be implied that the touch automatically hits, strange.
2) Fortitude Negates: As a second level spell the DC is only 12 + ability mod. + other bonuses if any. At higher levels this can be a problem.
3) Protection from Evil: Or a similar spell prevents the cyst from forming. Some creatures have Protection from Evil or a similar ability, either as a supernatural aility or as a spell-like ability. So some enemies will be immune to this spell.
4) Time: Casting time is a Standard Action, and this spell is required before any of the other spells can be used.
Of course vs. a creature with a low Fort save these spell can let you own it...hard. Either by using the other spells, or just the fact they take extra damage from undead attacks and suffer a -2 to their saves vs. Necromancy spells.
And Necrotic Empowerment is a powerful spell, worth the feat by it's self.
I use a Lich Sorcerer with the Necrotic spells, very nasty, they cant have the fortitude save when there paralysed 
so it can have uses especially for a DM but an imaginative player can easily use them. and for whether u know them or have to chsoe them for spells known, surely Dm's choice
so it can have uses especially for a DM but an imaginative player can easily use them. and for whether u know them or have to chsoe them for spells known, surely Dm's choice
Jack Simth
First Post
You can too make a Fort save when you're paralyzed; there's nothing at all preventing it (Reflex saves are a different matter).I use a Lich Sorcerer with the Necrotic spells, very nasty, they cant have the fortitude save when there paralysed
As for the feat and associated spells?
Because of the double action cost, they're much better suited for NPC's than PC's in most cases - as NPC's are "disposable" so to speak.
However, it works really well for someone who also has the Planar Binding line, also has Spectral Hand, and wants to create an army - Necrotic Tumor makes for Permanent control (and even permits suicidal orders, unlike Dominate Monster), Necrotic Scrying has no save, and permits conversations via Message. As Single-target spells let the caster know whether or not the spell worked, with a captive such as you get with the Planar Binding line, you can just keep zapping out of battle to get it set up - there's no limit to control, other than how many times per day you can cast the spells, and how long you have to set it up.
Cyst
Hi... new to the forum here but I think there are a few other points worth mentioning for necrotic cyst and the mother cyst chain in general.
1. The spells in the chain after N-cyst all by pass spell resistance, which could certainly be very useful against certain opponents. Not to mention all saves vs any of those spells are made at a -2 because of a cysts ability to weaken defenses vs. necromatic spells.
2. As for direct combat, yes it may have limited range of usefulness. But a cunning player may be able to use it to great affect. For example, heightening the spell to your maximum possible level to pump the DC, pre-casting the spell before encountering an important character and then shaking their hand to release the cyst. The spell descriptor specifically says, "the subject may not realize what was implanted within her." Imagine implanting a few unwitting bodyguards with cysts and later initiating a surprise attack with devestating results. This probably depends a lot on your DM's style, though.
3. Implanting a cyst in a small friendly creature (with a very poor fort save) under your control and ordering them to run into a pack of enemies, then casting necrotic eruption on the friendly creature could be a good way to spread some of the love around as well (sans touch attack). Small flying creatures could do this extremely well.
4. I know they are a higher end PRC, but coupling this ability with the arch-mage high arcana ability of arcane reach could be very potent as well. Even Spectral Hand would work, being that Cyst is only a level 2 spell.
Just a few thoughts. ;-)
Hi... new to the forum here but I think there are a few other points worth mentioning for necrotic cyst and the mother cyst chain in general.
1. The spells in the chain after N-cyst all by pass spell resistance, which could certainly be very useful against certain opponents. Not to mention all saves vs any of those spells are made at a -2 because of a cysts ability to weaken defenses vs. necromatic spells.
2. As for direct combat, yes it may have limited range of usefulness. But a cunning player may be able to use it to great affect. For example, heightening the spell to your maximum possible level to pump the DC, pre-casting the spell before encountering an important character and then shaking their hand to release the cyst. The spell descriptor specifically says, "the subject may not realize what was implanted within her." Imagine implanting a few unwitting bodyguards with cysts and later initiating a surprise attack with devestating results. This probably depends a lot on your DM's style, though.
3. Implanting a cyst in a small friendly creature (with a very poor fort save) under your control and ordering them to run into a pack of enemies, then casting necrotic eruption on the friendly creature could be a good way to spread some of the love around as well (sans touch attack). Small flying creatures could do this extremely well.
4. I know they are a higher end PRC, but coupling this ability with the arch-mage high arcana ability of arcane reach could be very potent as well. Even Spectral Hand would work, being that Cyst is only a level 2 spell.
Just a few thoughts. ;-)
As a DM, I love the flavor of them, but figured they were a bit weak in practice. I was looking for my Libris Mortis, but could not find it, though. If I find it, I'll post a bit more on it.
I looked a bit more at the cyst spells - h4m3d0 makes some great points, but I do think they're somewhat limited. Bypassing spell resistance is important at higher levels, but you still need to implant that first cyst into a bad guy (if you're a PC), or into a player (if you're the DM) to be able to do anything... "Hi, I'm a lich, let me shake your hand!" and then I say, "Roll a Fortitude save."
Though, I do like the necrotic eruption idea with casting it on the cyst within a small friendly creature (heck, one rat in a swarm of rats would do it...)
Though, I do like the necrotic eruption idea with casting it on the cyst within a small friendly creature (heck, one rat in a swarm of rats would do it...)
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