More on Gond?

Miziziziz

First Post
I was reading Forgotten Realms and I encountered Gond, an intermediate god of crafting and invention. His worshippers had invented something called an arquebus(?), which was basically a gun that had a high chance of self-detonating.

I'm wondering if this is in the game anywhere, or if anyone has made one.
Also, are there any other items that are Gond related? (clockwork,etc.)

Also, is there such thing as a cleric of Gond? what would that class involve?
 
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Black-powder firearms wouldn't be hard to add to the game. They'd just be a bit like alchemical items. They'd have a level, an attack bonus, and damage on a hit when used. But, instead of being entirely consumable like an ordinary alchemical item, it'd be an 'encounter' item that you can re-charge during a short rest, either with an alchemical consumable (if firearms are rare & 'magical') or just with a bit of powder and shot (if they're commonplace weapons).

Historically, firearms were a 'leveling' weapon, because they took very little training to use effectively. The alchemical item mechanic of a fixed attack bonus (rather than stat/level of the user) models that, if maybe going a bit far in that direction.
 

When I imagine guns in D&D I think of a sort of magic gun pistol. It is basically a rod with a handle to hold it and has the places to put the scroll ammunition so it shoots something like a magic missle at someone. When the hammar hits the scroll ammunition on the rod it has a magical reaction and fires a magic missle-esque round. I was thinking that it basically does the same dmg as magic missle but you roll for an effect to see if it happens. For example I load a fire shell and shot it. The enemy takes the dmg for being hit but you roll to see if they take ongoing fire dmg. How does that sound? That way you could still kill minions easily and hit everything but it wouldn't have as much umph as a real gun and still seems fantasy-esque. :)
 

I was reading Forgotten Realms and I encountered Gond, an intermediate god of crafting and invention. His worshippers had invented something called an arquebus(?), which was basically a gun that had a high chance of self-detonating.

I'm wondering if this is in the game anywhere, or if anyone has made one.

There probably isn't one. Guns in D&D are hard, and 4e is probably the worst edition for it. I'm saying this as a fan of 4e. 4e values balance. Guns are hard to balance when you take "real life" into account.

As soon as guns enter the equation, people talk less about balance and simplicity and more about realism. Any realistic gun tends to have a long reloading time. There's often special rules about wet powder (I've never seen official rules for wet bowstrings), smoke creating concealment, etc. People just know too much about guns.

D&D doesn't do realism well. Just look at how unrealistic a crossbow is. It has a range of only 15/30, so that's a range of 150 feet if you haven't taken Far Shot. Needless to say, that takes away a bunch of the crossbow's advantage. It has a load time of minor, which is far shorter than it would have been in real life. In real life, a crossbow is pretty useless as a single person weapon, but devastating in groups. You shower your opponents with bolts from long range, and then you laboriously reload and do it again. You want to do this from long range so you have time to reload several times before you have to run into the forest or behinds those stakes you pounded into the ground for cover. This ... doesn't suit a system design for small groups armed with different weapons (if you count magic as a weapon) who often fight in dungeons or cities.

Early hand-carried guns were mass battlefield weapons. They were too inaccurate and slow for adventuring use. If you make them realistic, you don't want to be using them in D&D.

Also, are there any other items that are Gond related? (clockwork,etc.)

I don't know about items, but the Craft domain had some cool domain-only spells. I really liked Fantastic Machine, and even converted it (as a monster, not a spell) for 4e.

Also, is there such thing as a cleric of Gond? what would that class involve?

Yes...

IMO, NPC priests do not need to be clerics. One thing I liked about 4e are NPCs don't have to use the same classes as PCs. You just give NPCs abilities that "fit". An NPC priest of Gond might not know anything about healing, and might have some non-magical ability to create minion traps (land mines). They might not be team players and won't find abilities like Priestly Laser useful. Radiant damage? Why? They don't need Turn Undead, Rebuke Undead, the invoker's Stun Undead, or whatever.

IMO, a PC cleric of Gond needs to suit an adventuring party. That means spellcasting, healing, and non-lame armor proficiencies. A PC cleric of Gond is special and suited for adventuring, unlike the majority of priests of Gond. If the player wants to create a character who doesn't suit a party, thank them for designing an NPC for you, and have them try again. It's possible some players shouldn't play priests of Gond due to self-nerfing desires.

Quite a few Gondsmen won't be divine spellcasters. They might be (in 3e terms) experts instead. That's fine, but they're not adventurers, they're minion NPCs who can make friends (or support enemies) when it comes to PCs.
 

There probably isn't one. Guns in D&D are hard, and 4e is probably the worst edition for it. I'm saying this as a fan of 4e. 4e values balance. Guns are hard to balance when you take "real life" into account.

As soon as guns enter the equation, people talk less about balance and simplicity and more about realism. Any realistic gun tends to have a long reloading time. There's often special rules about wet powder (I've never seen official rules for wet bowstrings), smoke creating concealment, etc. People just know too much about guns.

D&D doesn't do realism well. Just look at how unrealistic a crossbow is. It has a range of only 15/30, so that's a range of 150 feet if you haven't taken Far Shot. Needless to say, that takes away a bunch of the crossbow's advantage. It has a load time of minor, which is far shorter than it would have been in real life. In real life, a crossbow is pretty useless as a single person weapon, but devastating in groups. You shower your opponents with bolts from long range, and then you laboriously reload and do it again. You want to do this from long range so you have time to reload several times before you have to run into the forest or behinds those stakes you pounded into the ground for cover. This ... doesn't suit a system design for small groups armed with different weapons (if you count magic as a weapon) who often fight in dungeons or cities.

Early hand-carried guns were mass battlefield weapons. They were too inaccurate and slow for adventuring use. If you make them realistic, you don't want to be using them in D&D.



I don't know about items, but the Craft domain had some cool domain-only spells. I really liked Fantastic Machine, and even converted it (as a monster, not a spell) for 4e.



Yes...

IMO, NPC priests do not need to be clerics. One thing I liked about 4e are NPCs don't have to use the same classes as PCs. You just give NPCs abilities that "fit". An NPC priest of Gond might not know anything about healing, and might have some non-magical ability to create minion traps (land mines). They might not be team players and won't find abilities like Priestly Laser useful. Radiant damage? Why? They don't need Turn Undead, Rebuke Undead, the invoker's Stun Undead, or whatever.

IMO, a PC cleric of Gond needs to suit an adventuring party. That means spellcasting, healing, and non-lame armor proficiencies. A PC cleric of Gond is special and suited for adventuring, unlike the majority of priests of Gond. If the player wants to create a character who doesn't suit a party, thank them for designing an NPC for you, and have them try again. It's possible some players shouldn't play priests of Gond due to self-nerfing desires.

Quite a few Gondsmen won't be divine spellcasters. They might be (in 3e terms) experts instead. That's fine, but they're not adventurers, they're minion NPCs who can make friends (or support enemies) when it comes to PCs.
thanks for the response,
yeah I did some research on making guns in dnd, seems like I'd prolly just want to reskin a crossbow.
mostly was just curious if anyone knew the name arquebus and anything about Gondsmen. So thank you
 



mostly was just curious if anyone knew the name arquebus...

Also, if you have access and the inclination to convert it, I believe the 2e Player's Handbook listed the arquebus among its equipment lists.

Of course, that was back when rounds were still a minute long...and even then, if memory serves, it took multiple rounds to use.
 


I'm wondering if this is in the game anywhere, or if anyone has made one. Also, are there any other items that are Gond related? (clockwork,etc.)

In the 3.x Faiths and Pantheons book they had a Gond worshiping PrC called the Techsmith that let the character create a clockwork companion called a Gondsman.

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Techsmith.jpg
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You could emulate the Gondsman with a familiar but familiars are probably too fragile to fit the Gondsman concept. Instead you could take the Fey Beast Tamer theme and reskin it to be a mechanical construct instead of a creature.

And the concept has incredible potential for teaming up with another player. One plays as the Techsmith and the other plays a Warforged as his Gondsman.

Also, is there such thing as a cleric of Gond? what would that class involve?

These might help:
Gond - The Forgotten Realms Wiki - Books, races, classes, and more
Gond - The Forgotten Realms Wiki - Books, races, classes, and more
 

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