D&D 5E Moon Druid, some thoughts and questions

[Sunseeker]

It's disappointing that the subclasses, in this case Circles, have no capstone ability. 14-20 is a HUGE level gap in which all druids go from being either Moon or Land to just being druids. Which is fairly disappointing and arguably one of those features doesn't have much value in a campaign that does not span a long time. 14th level Alter Self at will is nifty....but still requires concentration, and still only lasts an hour. Arguably if you can cast something at will there's really no point in requiring concentration or having a duration, aside from forcing them to waste an action in combat to re-assume the alteration, which only matters to begin with if the alteration was a combat alteration, if you're just using the more subtle effects of 'Change Appearance' then really, who cares? Even if it was a 'Natural Weapons' or 'Aquatic Adaptation', by 14th level, it really wouldn't make a huge difference if you had claws, fangs, spines, horns or 'a different natural weapon of your choice'*** anyway. I would argue that given you are a pretty powerful druid anyway, you could say, take a 24-hour ritual to Alter Self permanently. Gaining any of these features, natural weapons or underwater breathing and a swim speed, are not going to seriously break the game. Making permanent physical alterations (my character now looks like J-Lo) that offer no statistical bonuses beyond dat booty really shouldn't be beyond the powers of a 14th-level druid anyway.

Maybe it's been said, but I really do find Circle of the Moon somewhat underwhelming, I'm sure that there are some good beasts I can turn into that are totally worth it, but the rest of the class features seem to be rather lackluster. The fact that each subclass reverts back to "basic druid" at 15th level is pretty disappointing.

Sooo, less questions and more thoughts. Thoughts?

***Anyone got a list of what counts as a natural weapons, is there a table of them in the MM?

 

[Flamestrike]

I really do find Circle of the Moon somewhat underwhelming

You're alone there methinks. The Moon Druid is widely considered by many to be anything from wildly to moderately OP at certain levels.

 

[Sunseeker]

You're alone there methinks. The Moon Druid is widely considered by many to be anything from wildly to moderately OP at certain levels.

Right I get why that is, it's the old: pick an awesome monster, become an awesome monster, wreck the place. I'm not arguing it's mathematical power, I'm more or less befuddled by the fact that everything besides that seems so dull.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Right I get why that is, it's the old: pick an awesome monster, become an awesome monster, wreck the place. I'm not arguing it's mathematical power, I'm more or less befuddled by the fact that everything besides that seems so dull.

It's a matter of expectations, I think. If you want a character who is 90% shapeshifter and 10% druid, Moon Druid will underwhelm you, in the same way that someone who wants a 90% undead guy and 10% wizard will be underwhelmed by 5E necromancers. Moon Druids and Necromancers are best for the guys who want to play generalists with a special shtick in addition: a (Shapeshifter) Druid instead of a Shapeshifter (Druid).

If one of my players had a similar complaint I'd propose allowing him to be a hyper-specialized Moon Druid who can shapeshift into fey/humanoids/giants/monstrosities as well as beasts (no special powers though, e.g. no jackalwere immunity to weapons or medusa petrification), and at CR = level/2 instead of level/3, but in return is only a 1/3 caster like an Eldritch Knight.

 

[Minigiant]

Right I get why that is, it's the old: pick an awesome monster, become an awesome monster, wreck the place. I'm not arguing it's mathematical power, I'm more or less befuddled by the fact that everything besides that seems so dull.

It is a matter of math however. Or more accurately: numbers.

Druid is a full caster first. So anything it gets outside of that is muted, dull, and/or limited.
Same with EKs. Fighters are warriors first. So their casting is 1/3 power and get 2/9 schools.

There is no "shapeshifer first" class in d&d yet.

 

[Sunseeker]

It's a matter of expectations, I think. If you want a character who is 90% shapeshifter and 10% druid, Moon Druid will underwhelm you, in the same way that someone who wants a 90% undead guy and 10% wizard will be underwhelmed by 5E necromancers. Moon Druids and Necromancers are best for the guys who want to play generalists with a special shtick in addition: a (Shapeshifter) Druid instead of a Shapeshifter (Druid).

That's a good point, I often forget that druids are full casters since I'm not particularly fond of using spells to begin with.

If one of my players had a similar complaint I'd propose allowing him to be a hyper-specialized Moon Druid who can shapeshift into fey/humanoids/giants/monstrosities as well as beasts (no special powers though, e.g. no jackalwere immunity to weapons or medusa petrification), and at CR = level/2 instead of level/3, but in return is only a 1/3 caster like an Eldritch Knight.

It would have been a nice twist on the Druid to reduce its spellcasting capabilities in exchange for enhanced shapeshifting abilities. Since it's Circle of Land counterpart arguably increases its spellcasting capabilities.

It is a matter of math however. Or more accurately: numbers.

Druid is a full caster first. So anything it gets outside of that is muted, dull, and/or limited.
Same with EKs. Fighters are warriors first. So their casting is 1/3 power and get 2/9 schools.

There is no "shapeshifer first" class in d&d yet.

It would be nice to have one then.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Shapeshifting is such a powerful ability, and player ingenuity will always outpace the wording of the rule; a class with even more shapeshifting powers would be (unsurprisingly) even more overpowered.

I get that you find Circle of the Moon underwhelming, but I'd be surprised if that view were widely shared.

 

[Sunseeker]

Shapeshifting is such a powerful ability, and player ingenuity will always outpace the wording of the rule; a class with even more shapeshifting powers would be (unsurprisingly) even more overpowered.

I get that you find Circle of the Moon underwhelming, but I'd be surprised if that view were widely shared.

I was really hoping that this edition would move away from "you become X creature" and be more along the lines of "you take on the form of such creature, gaining X abilities based on your level". I seem to recall it being that way in the playtest.

 

[PnPgamer]

I was really hoping that this edition would move away from "you become X creature" and be more along the lines of "you take on the form of such creature, gaining X abilities based on your level". I seem to recall it being that way in the playtest.

It was that way in pathfinder.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Interesting. I tend to feel the precise opposite; that is, if the druid's going to be a bear, I'd rather he just be a bear, with everything (except mental attributes) that entails.

Although I will admit, the player half of me (as opposed to the DM half) kinda wishes a druid could cast spells in beast form earlier than 18th level.