Monsters with trip and secondary attacks

[trentonjoe]

The big cats in the MM have the trips ability:

Trip (Ex): A worg that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+3 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the worg.

Now, if a monster trips with its bite it can use its claw attacks on the prone target (+2? to hit) right?

The trip thing isn't a full round action right?

Also, is there anything fundamentally wrong with giving a monster trip AND improved grap? I am envisioning (invisioning?, however you spell it) something being able to start a grapple as a free action against the cretaure it just successfully tripped.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The trip thing isn't a full round action right?

It's a free action.

Amusing rules tidbit - the Rules of the Game article on AoOs notes that you can't take a free action outside of your turn, unless the action specifically notes that you can (speaking or casting Feather Fall are the only ones in the Core Rules that do). So if someone provokes an AoO, you can't drop your dagger, quickdraw your greatsword, and hit him; you can only hit him with your dagger.

So we ask the Sage "So that means that a worg who bites you as an AoO can't Trip you, since the Trip is a free action, and thus can't be taken outside of your turn unless the action specifically notes such, right?"

"No, that's different. You can use the Trip ability on an AoO."

...!?

-Hyp.

 

[Bigwilly]

I had a similar question about grapple

Improved Trip gives you a follow-up attack if you successfully trip.

'Wolf' trip gives a follow-up trip if you successfully attack. I have ruled that it does not then allow a follow-up attack on the grounds that the wolf basically knocks or pulls the character down when it bites.

Same issue with grapple. Normally, if you grapple and pin you can do automatic damage. However, some creatures have constrict that allows them to do damage on a successful grapple check, even without pinning opponent. Some creatures also get a grapple check after a successful attack. I have also ruled that this grapple attempt does not do automatic damage. The monster basically clobbers the PC and grabs hold.

How do others rule this?

Bigwilly

 

[Hypersmurf]

Improved Trip gives you a follow-up attack if you successfully trip.

Not quite.

Improved Trip gives you a melee attack as if you had not used your original attack to trip.

When the wolf bites someone, he gets a free trip attempt. If he alos has Improved Trip, then if that trip is successful, he gets a melee attack as if he had not used the original attack to trip. But since a trip is all he's allowed to do with that attack, then the only thing he can do with free melee attack from Improved Trip... is to trip. And given that his opponent is already prone, there's not much point to that

-Hyp.

 

[cmanos]

the idea of a wolf biting and tripping is directly related to their fighting style. The idea is one will trip the prey and the 3 others in the pack will pounce on it while it is prone.

I'd say NO, a wolf can't bite, then trip, then attack with paws.

The three other wolves attacking the porone player will be sufficient.

And wolves aren't stupit. They won't charge into a strongly armed group of adventurers....they'll wait til the ranger goes off ahead to scout, and the mage is lagging behind cause he dropped his spell component pouch and then they'll take out the straggler...or the weak one....or the sick one...

 

[azmodean]

If the monster in question has any other attacks left for the round, they can use those to attack the now prone target. The wolf and big cat trip ability, however, does not give an extra follow-up attack upon a successful trip.

It's kind of like the trip feat from the SaF (knockdown, knockback?) that allows a free trip attempt if an atack does 20+ damage. You can't get a free trip and then get a free attack based on the trip.