Monks using weapons, is it worth it?

[DarkMask]

I do not mean weapons like swords or axes, but weapons specialized for monks, like tiger claws and such, where you still get the unarmed attack bonus. I was told using weapon, although allowing you to use your Unarmed Attack bonuses, will not allow you to use moves like stunning fist (is that right?) or anything else that monks can do unarmed.

My question was, if it really works like that, would it be worth it to take a level in Exotic Weapons Master and to get Stunning Fist's stun placed into your exotic weapon, or is that all just too confusing?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mainly, a monk's use of weapons is about roleplay & character concept.

It all depends on the concept and the build...and that partly depends upon which books you get to use.

In particular, I'm thinking of DCv1, which contains some nice monk feats: one lets you use a pole-arm as monk weapon, another lets you use a one handed weapon as a monk weapon, and yet another lets you use your unarmed attacks at range. A monk who can deliver AoOs and flurry with a reach weapon can be quite deadly- mine was nearly as deadly as the party's Barbarian...and took many fewer hits.

If you're just using the weapons from the PHB and OA as monk weapons, you can still have some fun. If nothing else, using those weapons will protect your monk from taking damage from critters that deal damage with contact. I had a monk who had to use his unarmed attacks against a slime...he helped kill it, but he took some serious damage in exchange for his troubles.

But the key is also that some of the monk weapons let you do things (or improve your odds of doing things) you normally couldn't. Nunchaku and Sai give you disarm bonuses. Kamas give you trip bonuses. The Siangham is the only piercing melee weapon for monks.

 

[DarkMask]

But I mean specifically the weapons which still count with the unarmed attack bonuses, the ones featured in Arms and Equipment book. Using them, can I use Stunning Fist with Sis and TIger Claws or do I need to take a special ability to do so?

 

[Agamemnon]

Well, just because you have both hands full of weapons doesn't stop you from using unarmed strike. And just because it's called "Stunning Fist" doesn't mean you can't use it for a kick to the groin, elbow to the ribs or a headbutt to the nose.

 

[Plane Sailing]

There is a +1 weapon enhancement that allows a monk to use his 'ki' powers through that weapon - that is the normal way in which 'stunning fist' would be manifest through a weapon IIRC.

The other big advantage with weapons is that they can be made of special materials and aligned (e.g. cold iron, holy), which helps bypassing certain DR.

 

[BASHMAN]

Yes!

My monk 15/Swordsage 1 has Exotic Weapon: Spiked Chain, Improved Trip, Knockdown, and Combat Reflexes.

This combined with 18STR and a penchant for using potions of Enlarge Person means he frequently has a 20STR and a 20' reach with said weapon.

The purpose of carrying the chain is for AOOs, and since it is adamantine, for hitting golems.

WHen he takes the AOO, he then can immediatly trip an opponent he does 10 damage to, thanks to Knockdown (the minimum damage he can do with the chain when enlarged is 10 points). Due to improved trip, and large size this is very often successful. Because of Improved trip, he then gets a second attack on said foe! When that foe tries to get up, guess what-- another AOO! Let the cycle continue. Thanks to Combat Reflexes, and 18 Dex (due to item boost) I make 4 AOOs a round.

The Dm has actually had enemies crawl around me with that chain. They fight prone rather than risk standing up.

Now, when it is my turn to attack, I generally move in close and use my feet to kick enemies (and thus maintain my grip on the spiked chain). Being enlarged and using the monks belt means this does 4d8 +5 damage per hit, far better than the spiked chain's 2d6+8, but I only do that on my turn. The chain I use on the bad-guy's turn!

 

[Fat Daddy]

Well, just because you have both hands full of weapons doesn't stop you from using unarmed strike. And just because it's called "Stunning Fist" doesn't mean you can't use it for a kick to the groin, elbow to the ribs or a headbutt to the nose.

I agree with Agamemnon.

A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full.

And

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired.

I would interpret this as meaning that you can't use Stunning Fist 'through' your weapons since it is not specifically stated as it is with the Flurry of Blows. However you could still use Stunning Fist while holding a monk weapon in each hand or even with your hands tied behind your back (as Agamemnon said, it doesn't have to be your fist).

 

[Legildur]

WHen he takes the AOO, he then can immediatly trip an opponent he does 10 damage to, thanks to Knockdown (the minimum damage he can do with the chain when enlarged is 10 points). Due to improved trip, and large size this is very often successful. Because of Improved trip, he then gets a second attack on said foe! When that foe tries to get up, guess what-- another AOO! Let the cycle continue. Thanks to Combat Reflexes, and 18 Dex (due to item boost) I make 4 AOOs a round.

You should check out the 3.0 FAQ or the Sword and Fist errata. One of those clarifies the use of the Knockdown feat in that you are not eligible for the bonus attack from Improved Trip if the opponent is tripped because of the Knockdown feat. Sorry.

 

[Legildur]

An often overlooked weapon for monks is the quarterstaff: you can enchant both ends with different effects, you can use it two-handed for extra damage for a single attack and also get the 2:1 bonus to damage from Power Attack (to get past DR), and it also has great bonuses for disarm (being a two-handed weapon). Oh yeah, and you can flurry with it.

I also like the Kama for the tripping capability - used to get a bit of mileage out of that, particularly with the last attack in a routine which typically has a low BAB and therefore the touch attack is much more likely to strike than the regular attack.

No other special monk weapons really appeal.

 

[glass]

But I mean specifically the weapons which still count with the unarmed attack bonuses, the ones featured in Arms and Equipment book. Using them, can I use Stunning Fist with Sis and TIger Claws or do I need to take a special ability to do so?

Arms & Equipment Guide is a 3.0 book. Monks no longer have a separate attack bonus for unarmed strikes: IIRC, the only difference between monk and non-monk weapons now is whether the monk can flurry with them.


glass.