Monk without being Lawful

[Herzog]

I am trying to find feats and/or PrC's for a character that has 9 (10?) levels of rogue and wants to add monk abilities.

Problem is, the character is definetely not Lawful, and the group has expressed sincere doubt the player is even capable of playing a lawful character.

So instead, I'm trying to help the player in question find monk or monk-like abilities that can be obtained WITHOUT taking levels in the monk class, or a different class that requires you to be lawful. He already plans on taking the whirlwind attack, but what other feats or PrC's do you recommend?

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Dragon Compendium I has the Battle Dancer class, it has many features that are the same as the monk, but is limited to characters of chaotic alignment.

 

[awayfarer]

Between the Book of 9 Swords and the PHB2 it is now possible (if a bit feat-intensive) to build a competent unarmed fighter.

The Superior Unarmed Strike feat out of the Bo9S is really necessary for this. Basically it gives a damage progression similar to (but weaker than) the monk's unarmed progression, capping at 2d6.

I'm currently playing an unarmed tiefling scout. At low levels his damage output is pretty bad when not using skirmish, but I think things will turn around when he qualifies for SUS.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I am trying to find feats and/or PrC's for a character that has 9 (10?) levels of rogue and wants to add monk abilities.

Problem is, the character is definetely not Lawful, and the group has expressed sincere doubt the player is even capable of playing a lawful character.

So instead, I'm trying to help the player in question find monk or monk-like abilities that can be obtained WITHOUT taking levels in the monk class, or a different class that requires you to be lawful. He already plans on taking the whirlwind attack, but what other feats or PrC's do you recommend?

Ask him why he wants Monk?

If Wisdom to AC buy a Monk Belt: it does the same thing.

If Unarmed damage, take Superior unarmed Strike feat (same thing)

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

If Unarmed damage, take Superior unarmed Strike feat (same thing)

Also, if the DM allows it, Improved Natural Attack from the Monster Manual. And have Mighty Wallop (or, even better, Greater Mightly Wallop) available, if possible. Imp. Nat. Attack will increase your damage by one size category, and the Mighty Wallop spells increase it even more (esp. Greater Mighty Wallop).

 

[Herzog]

The reasoning is actually kind of silly.

He saw the Feat that lets you add your monk level to your rogue level for the purpose of gaining unarmed damage.
This made him want to get a lvl of monk.
When the DM, and actually most of the other players, said he couldn't because his aligment didn't match, he argued, but in the end (I think) he agreed.

However, for some obscure reason (even if the feat option would no longer be valid) he still wants unarmed damage increase.
As I understand it, he would like to be able to do (lethal) sneak attack damage with his bare hands.

The Bo9S option seems a good bet, although we currently don't allow the book (mainly because we are hesitant about introducing stances and maneuvers, so maybe the feat will be accepted).

I think the Improved Natural Attack will be frowned upon, but I'll suggest the option.

The Dragon Compendium (or, to be more precise, anything from Dragon Magazine) is not really part of the 'normal' ruleset, and will therefore not be allowed, unless I can make a REALLY good argument to include it. But thanks for pointing it out!

 

[Kristian Serrano]

The Dragon Compendium (or, to be more precise, anything from Dragon Magazine) is not really part of the 'normal' ruleset, and will therefore not be allowed, unless I can make a REALLY good argument to include it. But thanks for pointing it out!

What's the definition of normal ruleset? It's 100% official D&D content from Dragon Magazine and even bears the official D&D and WotC logos.

PS - I second the battle dancer option.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Also, if the DM allows it, Improved Natural Attack from the Monster Manual. And have Mighty Wallop (or, even better, Greater Mightly Wallop) available, if possible. Imp. Nat. Attack will increase your damage by one size category, and the Mighty Wallop spells increase it even more (esp. Greater Mighty Wallop).

He doesn't qualify for Improved Natural Attack.

Unarmed Strike is only a natural attack for feats for the Monk (monk entry makes it both manufactored and natural attack).

THe PHB put unarmed strike in the simple weapon category in the weapons table in the PHB. So that makes it a simple weapon.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

First, I'll second the Battle Dancer.

Second, follow the link in my sig to the Monk Database and take a close look at the alternative Monks and PrCls. Some do not even require levels in Monk, just a certain set of feats and skill levels.

Of note:

1) the Shou Disciple is a PrCl that doesn't require actual Monk levels, allows armor use, and eventually grants the ability to FoB with any weapon.

2) the OA Shaman and Sohei (especially after their Dragon #318 revision by James Wyatt, author of OA) have some Monk-like abilities.

3) the Chaos Monk (Dragon #355) is, as I recall, a Chaotic aligned Monk variant base class.

4) the Shou Disciple is one of the best Monk dip PrCls, with a single level granting a Wis bonus to Att & Dmg rolls.

Third, if your player goes one of those routes, there are several ways to gain FoB with non-Monk weapons. Besides the aforementioned Shou Disciple and Sohei, there are several feats that grant FoB with selected weapons. They are listed under the Weapon Focus header in the Feats section of the Database.

Fourth, AFAIK, the ability to treat unarmed strikes as natural or manufactured weapons is unique to the Monk class. The revised OA Shaman's Unarmed Strike does increase in power like the Monk's, though.

 

[blargney the second]

Another recommendation for battle dancer. Just get your DM to have a look at it - he might change his mind once he's actually seen it.