Mithral Celestial Armor?

[domino]

A question I had.

Celestial armor is +3 chainmail with some other goodies attached, it's exceptionally fine, light, and so on.

Now, it has a max dex of +8, ACP of -2 and counts as light armor, etc...

Normal chainmail has a max dex of +2, and ACP of -5

Mithral would add 2 to the max dex, and -3 to Armor Check Penalty, for dex +4, ACP -2. Getting close to what the Celestial armor is.

BUT

It doesn't say it's made of mithril. So, could someone use Mithril Chainmail as the base, and wind up with a set of Celestial Armor with +10 max dexterity, and an ACP of 0?

Or do you assume/it's said explicitly that it's already made of mithril, and that's where it gets some of its nimbleness from?

 

[kigmatzomat]

The RAW is vague. I've given out mithral celestial armor as an item but I'm the DM.

If you are the DM, decide. If not, ask politely. Polite will get you more from most DMs than any other technique.

 

[shilsen]

As kigatzomat pointed out, this is a highly nebulous area and purely up to the DM making a judgement call. A DM may assume that the named magical armors are only available in the form they are listed and cannot be modified. Another may decide that they are just one version. Talk to yours about it. And if you're the DM, just pick whatever suits your style/game.

 

[smootrk]

I would rule that the Celestial Armor is already of a (divine) material that is light, yet hard (like mithril). If the player wanted it in mithril, then he would forego the already superior material that it consists of.

As a side note, I don't allow pc's to change the 'metal' or basic material of any magic item. Once it is Cold-Iron, then it is always Cold-Iron (aside from a couple of special cases). They might as well start from stratch.

 

[werk]

A DM may assume that the named magical armors are only available in the form they are listed and cannot be modified.

That's me. The fact that it goes so far as to specify the type of armor tells me that is how it appears in the setting.

I'd probably allow a character to make the mithril version himself, after appropriate successful research, but he wouldn't ever be able to purchase it or have it commissioned.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I would rule that the Celestial Armor is already of a (divine) material that is light, yet hard (like mithril).

It says it's made from silver and gold. And yet it doesn't say that it has different Hardness/HP characteristics from regular steel.

I'm going to second Kigmatzomat, and say the player should ask politely.

Personally, I don't see why they shouldn't stack. It costs more money, and the increase to max Dex and decrease to ACP aren't something that'd scare me as a DM. Heck, given the item description says it's made from silver and gold, making it from mithril seems a logical progression. (I'm also of the camp that believes any good armor or weapon is made out of an exotic material for durability reasons)

I might require a bit more effort to find an armorcrafter who could and would make it for the PC (needing a good-aligned caster who could get celestials to voluntarily help out), but that's about it.

Brad

 

[MarkB]

I'd be very careful about taking this too far. If you allow 'Celestial' to be considered a general armour type whose properties are derived from those of the celestial chainmail, and let the Mithral special properties stack with it, it would be trivially easy to create, for example, a Celestial Mithral Full Plate with the Twilight special property, and have a suit of full plate with zero arcane spell failure and zero armour check penalty. Is that a mob of high-level wizards and sorcerers I hear beating a path to your door?

 

[smootrk]

It says it's made from silver and gold. And yet it doesn't say that it has different Hardness/HP characteristics from regular steel.
Brad

If it is made of Silver and Gold then it is not 'Mithril'. Something else (divine/celestial power) works with the silver & gold to make the armour 'different'.

I would still rule that it is not possible to have the best of both. It is just a player's wishful aims to have celestial armor with the qualities of mithril heaped on top - and likely on differing types of armour too. IMO it defies the intent of the designers (of the armour), and is a product of bad wording in its description

 

[domino]

Actually, it says it's "bright silver or gold", which leads me to think they're talking more about the color, rather than the metal itself.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I would say No, that these named armors are not generic types. Otherwise we can start asking how much a Celestial Demon Mithral Rhino DragonHide Armor of Luck, Command, and Deep would cost.

IMO the Celestial Armor is, in fact, made of silver or gold. There are numerous traditions of these being intrisically noble materials, and it is perfectly logical that woven with the right kind of magicks silver and gold impart special properties.

Flavorwise, you should also be careful about changing Celestial Armor to another armor type. Chainmail has a tradition of being the basic armor of the noble knight, as good quality mail is very expensive. (There are wide variations in quality.) So Celestial heavy armor makes sense. Maybe Celestial breat plate. But not Celestial chain shirt.

I am never against a DM making room for a special armor that bends the rules as part of a neato reward for a PC. But I would definitely not add Celestial to the generic list of armor enchantments.