Mirror Image and Swarms

[Herremann the Wise]

A PC casts mirror image and then is attacked by a swarm (starting his next turn within the swarm's area. Are the images destroyed?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Hypersmurf]

A PC casts mirror image and then is attacked by a swarm (starting his next turn within the swarm's area. Are the images destroyed?

There are arguments either way.

Personally, I'd rule no:
Creatures with the swarm subtype don’t make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed.

To me, this makes it basically an area attack, and the Mirror Image text notes that area spells don't destroy images.

Also:
Enemies attempting to attack you or cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets. Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. Any successful attack against an image destroys it.

The swarm attack doesn't select targets, so this doesn't appear applicable.

On the other hand: swarm attack is not an area spell, so by the literal reading of "figments react normally to area spells", the line doesn't apply.

Of course, on that same literal hand, the swarm attack deals damage to creatures in the area, and the figments aren't creatures, so if we're being literal, the swarm attack should ignore the figments; thus, there is no successful attack on the figments, thus they are not destroyed.

-Hyp.

 

[Corsair]

I'd say no. A swarm as a whole doesn't actually make attacks.

 

[roguerouge]

Most of the time, it would ignore the illusion, as, often, they are classified as vermin:

Vermin Traits: Vermin possess the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

Now, if these are animals, that's a different story.

 

[Deset Gled]

the swarm attack should ignore the figments

Most of the time, it would ignore the illusion

Under this interpretation, would it be noticable to an observer that the swarm is ignoring (not attacking, and possibly moving straight through) the mirror images and only focusing on the real caster?

 

[Artoomis]

Under this interpretation, would it be noticable to an observer that the swarm is ignoring (not attacking, and possibly moving straight through) the mirror images and only focusing on the real caster?

No. Just as when the images act correctly to an area effect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Most of the time, it would ignore the illusion, as, often, they are classified as vermin:

Vermin Traits: Vermin possess the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

Notice that the list of mind-affecting effects does not include 'figments'.

Mirror Image is not a mind-affecting spell. If you cast Mirror Image and fight a zombie, the zombie needs to randomly select between indistinguishable targets when he punches at you just like anyone else. His Mindlessness doesn't stop him from seeing four of you.

-Hyp.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Now, if these are animals, that's a different story.

Hmmm...

In actual fact, it is an Ayperobos Swarm from Fiendish Codex II - a swarm of diminuitive outsiders that look like fat, flying, hairy humanoids with crimson skin, horns, and dispropotionately large mouths.

Of importance is the "Control Body (Ex)" Ability:

"An Ayperobos swarm automatically burrows into the flesh of any creature that is within its space and fails a Fort save... The Swarm is removed from play as it takes control of the victim's body. This ability functions like Dominate Monster."

Does this mean that to others near an Ayperobos swarm-affected PC with mirror image in effect, they would see a number of images with hundreds of these little men attached?

Hypersmurf, while your analysis makes perfect sense in regards to the rules - it would seem that the physics of the situation would go the other way: the images being attacked by hundreds of unwitting little crimson outsiders and thus the images dissipating, the mirror image spell being ended. Is there anything about this specific situation with the Ayperobos swarm that would have you ruling the other way?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does this mean that to others near an Ayperobos swarm-affected PC with mirror image in effect, they would see a number of images with hundreds of these little men attached?

That's how I'd do it.

Hypersmurf, while your analysis makes perfect sense in regards to the rules - it would seem that the physics of the situation would go the other way: the images being attacked by hundreds of unwitting little crimson outsiders and thus the images dissipating, the mirror image spell being ended. Is there anything about this specific situation with the Ayperobos swarm that would have you ruling the other way?

If you throw a rock and it hits an image, the image disappears.

If you throw a bucket of rocks that blanket the area, that is similar to an area spell, and the figments react appropriately.

Similarly, if an Ayperobos Demon bites an image, the image disappears. If a swarm of Ayperobos Demons carpet an area and bite every creature within it, the figments react appropriately.

Essentially, if you want to pop an image, you need to target it individually, not blanket an area.

-Hyp.