Mind Blank - Immune to True Seeing?

[GamerMan12]

If you read the description of the mind blank spell (particularly the second sentence) it states that it effects any information gathering divination spell. And then in the example it shows that Arcane eye would not see someone under the effect of Mind Blank.

This can be interpreted to mean someone that is invisible and mind blanked is not detectable by any divination spell (nor the specifically mentioned spells of wish, miracle and limited wish). That is True Seeing and See Invisible, both being divination spells won't work.

I do not think that this is in the spirit of the spell, as True Seeing can see invisible objects that have no mind and can be argued not to rely on the mind of the target for its information.

However, the wording is not the best and the Rogue with a permanent Mind Blank cast on him, has a strong argument to not being detectable with True Seeing or See Invisible whilst Invisible.

A better 2nd sentence would include the phrase 'information gathering from a creature's mind' rather than just information gathering.

What do others think?

 

[Brekki]

Mindblank blocks all divination spells, so true seeing would have no effect against a mind-blanked opponent.

 

[Li Shenron]

And then in the example it shows that Arcane eye would not see someone under the effect of Mind Blank.

Anyway Mind Blank refers to spells which detect, influence or read emotions or though, mind-affecting, "information gathering" divinations, affecting or gaining information about someone's mind, and specifically mentions scrying spells.

True Seeing is nothing of the above except maybe an "information gathering" divination... But I am not sure that I would rule it blocks TS, since it has absolutely nothing to do with someone's mind. At least the name of Mind Blank should be changed if it does more than what regards the subject's mind.

edit: I wonder why they wrote that "information gathering divinations", isn't Divination the info-gathering magic by definition?

 

[Li Shenron]

How sad! Does Mind Blank basically confer total immunity to two entire schools of magic (Divination and Enchantment)? That seems to me quite a lot even for an 8th level spell!

 

[RuminDange]

I've been wondering the same about mind blank combined with invisibility and true seeing. Does True Seeing see the invisible mind blanked character?
Since the divine version of True Seeing shows the alignment of those looked at it is "gathering information" about the creatures’ morals and ethics, which is blocked by Mind Blank, although the arcane version doesn’t show the alignment it is still the same spell. So it has been a question my group has had for a while, and we are still a little undecided on the issue, but we have as a group decide to use the Mind blank stops all forms of divination spells and mind effecting, and so far it has been too much of a issue of abuse but the potential is there, so we still wonder.

RD

 

[WingOver]

Mind Blank doesn't guard against True Seeing or any other spell designed to look at a character (such as Greater Arcane Sight or See Invisibility). Mind Blank can't shield the effects on the character (which these divination spells can see) or obscure normal vision, but do make him immune to scrying and spells that attempt to read or affect his mind.

This issue came up about a year ago when my wizard was able to cast Greater Arcane Sight on NPC wizards that were Mind Blanked. I read a sage advice on it, but unfortunately I can't find it and provide a reference.

 

[Otterscrubber]

From the SRD:

The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.

Well it seems the question is not about mind blank but rather about what does See Invisible actually do. Is it another form of detect? It is not called detect invivisble, but seems like a thin line. Although you are indirectly getting information about the mind blanked person via see invisible so that you now know where they are if you see them.

This is a good question. I'm not sure how we would rule this in my campaign. Try to find that sage quote, it might help.

 

[GamerMan12]

Mind Blank doesn't guard against True Seeing or any other spell designed to look at a character (such as Greater Arcane Sight or See Invisibility).

Whilst I agree with the sentiments expressed here, it is not what the rules say. And I would say that Greater Arcane Sight is stopped by mindblank, given that it does negate Arcane Eye by specific example in the rule.

GM12

 

[GamerMan12]

Try to find that sage quote, it might help.

I agree, a Sage quote is likely to help

GM12

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision, as well as any that are ethereal, as if they were normally visible. Such creatures are visible to you as translucent shapes, allowing you easily to discern the difference between visible, invisible, and ethereal creatures.

You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.

I agree that it's daft... But, I think the exact wording these spells actually let you see the creature, rather than ignoring the effects of any invisibility/hiding spells they have... So, by the text of Mind Blank - which specifically protects the subject from all divinations, it would protect you from both these spells.

Personally I think that's against the spirit of Mind Blank, so I'd house rule it. And probably throw pointed dice at the person who considers that a reasonable use of Mind Blank.

Edit: True Seeing is a bit more ambiguous - it does say you can see through illusions... which would seem to suggest the spell can't detect the invisible creature, but your normal eyesight could, after True Seeing has seen through the invisibility effect.

If that makes any sense!