D&D 5E Maximillian's earthen grasp and spell range

[CanadienneBacon]

Maximillian's earthen grasp provides that "[a]s an action, you can cause the hand to reach for a different creature or to move to a different unoccupied space within range." Emphasis mine.

If a spellcaster casts the spell and directs it to attack a creature within the specified 30' range, then in a subsequent round moves out of range of the hand, what happens to the hand? Does it vanish (wasting a 2nd level spell!)? Does the hand move automatically until it is once again within range of its caster (like a puppy trailing after its master)? Does the hand let go of a creature it had been grappling? Does the hand continue grappling a creature it previously squeezed?

What if the player used his Bonus Action to cast a quickened spell, and his Action to disengage (and move out of range of the hand), but failed to say anything about how to treat the earthen hand he'd previously cast? The spell description provides that moving the hand and/or directing the hand to switch targets to squeeze requires an Action, but is a little vague about how to treat range when the caster's moved away.

My take is that the caster has to be within 30' of the hand to be able to direct or move the hand. I think the spell description is reasonably clear on that. My main question, however, is what happens to the hand when the caster moves out of range? At a minimum, I think it ought to let go of any creature it might have been squeezing. I'm unclear, however, whether the spell should end, or if the hand sticks around, where should it go and what should it be doing? Letting the hand move feels a little bit like giving the player a free Action that he wouldn't otherwise be entitled to since he used his Action to disengage. But, then again, I'm not entirely comfortable ruling that a 2nd level spell ends automatically once the spellcaster moves out of range. This is for a party of fourth level characters, mind you, so a 2nd level spell is a huge resource. I should additionally clarify that it's for a PbP game, so efficiency is paramount, particularly when we're in the middle of combat rounds...no time for the kind of back-and-forth you'd normally expect during a tabletop game. I'd very much appreciate answers that take the PbP environment into consideration (at a table, obviously I'd simply prompt the player with something like, "Hey, dude, what about your character's earthen hand, you moving that or disengaging?"). I s'pose, even if this were a tabletop game, the meta-question of what happens to the hand remains.

I'll take another look at PHB 202-203 and the spell description in the morning with fresh eyes, but in the interim I'd love to hear from the field.

 

[Sunseeker]

I would rule the following:

When you cast it, it must of course, be within 30' of you. The can cannot move more than 30' away from you. YOU can move more than 30' away from the hand though, and IMO, when you do, the spell ends.

Alternatively, when you cast it w/in 30' of yourself, the hand now has a 30' radius of space within which it can move. If you move more than 30' away from the hand, that makes no difference. You can still command the hand to move within the 30' radius that you created it in.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

I would rule the following:

When you cast it, it must of course, be within 30' of you. The can cannot move more than 30' away from you. YOU can move more than 30' away from the hand though, and IMO, when you do, the spell ends.

This is how I ruled. Somewhat uncomfortably, but I did it and we've moved on. Such is gaming.

Alternatively, when you cast it w/in 30' of yourself, the hand now has a 30' radius of space within which it can move. If you move more than 30' away from the hand, that makes no difference. You can still command the hand to move within the 30' radius that you created it in.

This is, I think, my player's interpretation. It's not a bad one. I don't agree with it, as it feels counterintuitive to me and against the grain of the implied wording of the spell description, but I didn't find it unreasonable. His interpretation certainly informed my posting this thread. I've invited him here, and hope he appears to state his case (I'm sure I'm not doing his point of view justice).

 

[jaelis]

Spells don't end if you move out of range unless they say they do. But if you pick a new space it has to be within 30 ft of your current location.

 

[Yavathol]

As the player in question, I'm a little biased, but I can't see anything about the spell expiring if the caster moves out of range (and I think it would explicitly state in the description if so), so the normal spell duration rules apply.

Although we're dealing with earthen grasp specifically, this set of circumstances would also apply to create bonfire, flaming sphere and wall of xxx, etc

 

[Sunseeker]

This is how I ruled. Somewhat uncomfortably, but I did it and we've moved on. Such is gaming.

This is, I think, my player's interpretation. It's not a bad one. I don't agree with it, as it feels counterintuitive to me and against the grain of the implied wording of the spell description, but I didn't find it unreasonable. His interpretation certainly informed my posting this thread. I've invited him here, and hope he appears to state his case (I'm sure I'm not doing his point of view justice).

The latter is obviously more powerful as it allows the caster to move about the field after casting, but a 30' ring of movement is also a HUGE limitation IMO above and beyond the concentration requirement. Typically a spell-caster drops a spell and then tries to get out of dodge. The first ruling doesn't allow them to get out of dodge, though the point of the spell may be intended to be more for defense rather than offense.

 

[Sezarious]

Maximillians Earthen grasp (2nd lv transmutation)
-Single target at a time
-immobilisation + damage on failed save
-Whilst they're grappled, you can use your action to deal 2d6 damage. It's not even auto damage really, because every round, your enemy gets to make a save, the same as if you were using a cantrip that didn't require an attack role. Furthermore, once you're lv5, you're casting cantrips with much better damage.
-Up to 1 minute concentration duration

Web (2nd lv conjuration)
-20 ft radius (potential multiple targets)
-immobilisation on failed save
-Up to 1 hour concentration duration

I think really that given you can maintain the web spell out of range with concentration, earthen grasp should be no different.

Your 1 enemy gets to make a strength save to try and escape EVERY round like with a lot of lower level spells and once the caster has moved out of sight of the spell, they can't command it to attack again once their enemy escapes.

In addition, if they want to stop to activate the 'squeeze' ability, there's a risk. If their enemy has escaped and the caster is trying to squeeze what isn't there, they're just wasting time in a scenario where running out of range to escape is an issue anyway.

Maximillians Earthen grasp is a good single target immobilisation spell. It's situationally rigged up as a nice battle spell but can also be used for escape, so it's flexible.

It's a strength save based alternative to suggestion too (2nd lv enchantment), but suggestion lasts for concentration up to 8 hours, you could again get rid of one really nasty enemy by telling them to run 5 to 10 miles in the opposite direction and hide from their own troops for duration.

If a player took it over some other spell, I kind of think it's fair enough. Being able to leave your enemy grappled whilst you flee is kind of part of the spell. Also fits the flavour of the transmutation school too.

 

[famousringo]

Spells don't end if you move out of range unless they say they do. But if you pick a new space it has to be within 30 ft of your current location.

Sounds right to me.

Imagine how many spells would be worthless if they ended when outside the caster's range. Not much point in casting Haste or Invisibility on an ally, and enemies could shake off debuffs just by retreating.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

The problem becomes what to do with the hand as a practical matter. Is line of sight required to manipulate the hand if the caster moves out of range? And does anyone have thoughts on the issue of the hand requiring an Action to move and manipulate, specifically what might the hand be doing in the event the caster forgets about the hand and instead uses his Action to do something else for a round?

 

[Radaceus]

I had this come up once, and how it unfolded was thus:

The caster cast within 30' and the hand grasped it's target, within a few melees the caster misty stepped more than 30' away from the target, at that point the target ( a goblin) had been crushed as it failed each of it's checks, the caster attempted to move the hand , but I told her she was unable to direct the hand to move, it was just not listening to her. When prodded about it, I made her roll INT check which she succeeded. I informed her that I've ruled that the hand was still active as she had LoS and had not failed a concentration check, but was out of range so she could not direct it. She then move/dashed back into range on the following action was able to direct the Hand to a new target within range.