Master Summoner - Prestige Class

[farscapesg1]

I posted this on the Wizard's message boards, but thought I would put it out here for advice also.


First, let me apologize for the lame class name

This is a prestige class I have been working on for my character. I need some advice on balancing things out (as I am sure they are unbalanced) but still maintain the flavor of a caster who can summon large numbers of creatures. I can drop some of the enhancement ideas, but then I would need to find some filler ideas for bringing in more creatures.


Master Summoner

The scout reported back to his commander that a small unit of the opposing army was just over the hillside.
“The unit is small sir, fourteen soldiers and a wizard from the looks of it.”
“Get the men ready, we have them out numbered two-to-one. Make sure to spread out when we attack so the wizard can’t get us with a fireball or any other magical tricks.”

Jorlath Mirsham worried while his unit marched behind enemy lines. As second-in-command, he had to take control when their commander fell in battle. His main concern was getting what was left of the unit back to friendly territory. While crossing a river, he hears the distant sound of armored troops just before they emerge from the forest both behind and in front of them. Realizing they are outnumbered and unable to fight on both fronts, Jorlath raises his hands and begins chanting as a couple trained warriors move to protect him from incoming attacks. As he completes the spell, five black bears and four dire badgers appear between his unit and those ambushing them from behind and move to attack at his command. Quickly, his troops rush across the river and towards the other group of enemies as Jorlath’s words of magic signaled the coming of more allies to help turn the odds in their favor.


Many casters dabble in the magics pertaining to summoning creatures from other planes. Conjurers focus in this field of magical study. Master Summoners immerse themselves in it. To a Master Summoner, very few things cannot be accomplished by bringing another being from a distant plane to do it for them.

Requirements

To qualify to become a Master Summoner, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Skills: Knowledge (Planes) 10 ranks, Spellcraft 10 ranks, Knowledge (Arcana) 10 ranks
Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Extend Spell, Skill Focus – Knowledge (planes)
Spells: Able to cast 3rd level spells and must know Summon Monster from each spell level
Special: Able to speak at least 3 planar languages

Class Skills

The master summoner’s class skills are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (Int), Profession (Wis), Speak Language, and Spellcraft (Int)

Level BAB Fort Ref Will 
--------------------------
  1   +0  +0   +0   +2    
  2   +1  +0   +0   +3
  3   +1  +1   +1   +3   
  4   +2  +1   +1   +4   
  5   +2  +2   +2   +4  
  6   +3  +2   +2   +5  
  7   +3  +3   +3   +5   
  8   +4  +3   +3   +6  
  9   +4  +4   +4   +6  
  10  +5  +4   +4   +7  
*
Level   Special Abilities             		Spells
-----------------------------------------------------------
  1     Improved Augmentation,                  --------
         Communication, Enhanced Specialization
  2     Variable Allies            		+1 Spellcaster Level
  3     Spontaneous Summoning                   +1 Spellcaster Level
  4     Extra Allies                    	+1 Spellcaster Level
  5     Extended Summoning                    	+1 Spellcaster Level                             
  6     Of Both Worlds                    	+1 Spellcaster Level 
  7     Denial                    		+1 Spellcaster Level
  8     Banishment                    		+1 Spellcaster Level                             
  9     Spell Enhanced Summoning                +1 Spellcaster Level 
  10   Army of Allies                 		--------

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Master Summoners gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each level a master summoner gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or destroying undead, a bonus feat, and so on). If he had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an acolyte of the skin, he must decide to which class to add each level of the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Improved Augmentation (Ex): Each creature summoned by the Master Summoner receives a +4 enhancement bonus to Dexterity in addition to the Strength and Constitution bonus from Augmented Summoning.

Communication (Sp): A Master Summoner can automatically communicate with any creature they have summoned. To anyone else listening, they are each speaking their own language, but they are able to understand each other similar to the familiar ability “speak with master.”

Enhanced Specialization: A master summoner increases his devotion to the school of Conjuration. If the character was already a Conjurer, he must choose one additional prohibited school of magic (cannot be abjuration or divination). If the character was not specialized (whether a generalist wizard, sorcerer, etc.), he must choose two prohibited schools of magic (cannot be abjuration, divination, or conjuration). He can never again learn spells from these additional schools of magic, but is still able to cast spells from the schools that he previously learned and he can still use items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger that utilize spells he already knows. The master summoner does not gain any additional spells or bonuses to spellcraft from this enhanced specialization. Further, if the caster has the ability to swap spells previously learned (such as a bard or a sorcerer), he cannot choose to forget a Summon Monster spell.

Variable Allies (Ex): Any time the Master Summoner uses a Summon Monster spell to summon multiple creatures, they no longer have to be of the same kind. A Master Summoner using Summon Monster IV to summon 3 creatures from the 3rd level list could select any 3. For example, he could summon a Celestial Black Bear, a Celestial Hippogriff, and a Celestial Dire Badger (or any other combination).

Spontaneous Summoning: A master summoner can choose to exchange any previously prepared spell for any Summon Monster spell of equal level. For example, a master summoner could choose to exchange a Fireball spell that he had previously prepared for a Summon Monster III spell. This ability obviously has no effect if the caster already has spontaneous spellcasting, such as a sorcerer or bard.

Extra Allies (Ex): When using a Summon Monster spell to summon creatures from a lesser list (such as using Summon Monster IV to summon creatures from the level 3 list), use the following to determine the number of creatures summoned;
1 level lower – 1d3+1
2 levels lower – 1d4+2
3 levels lower or more – 1d6+3

Extended Summoning (Ex): Any summoning spell cast by the Master Summoner functions as if it was cast using the Extend Spell feat, but without the added casting time or spell level adjustment.

Alternatively, the Master Summoner may use a Summon Monster spell to summon one creature for a duration of 10 minutes per level to perform non-combat related tasks. If commanded engage in combat, the summoned creature will return to it's plane of existance, ending the duration prematurely.

Of Both Worlds: Creatures summoned by a master summoner have the ability to bypass protections that would normally keep them out of an area, such as Protection from Evil or Magic Circle against Evil. The master summoner must make a Caster Level check against the spell for each creature. A success means that the creature is not blocked from entering the area and attacking those protected by the spell. All summoned creatures also gain a +4 bonus to will saves against Dismissal or Banishment spells cast on them.

Denial (Su): Twice per day a master summoner may attempt to counterspell another’s summoning spell without using a spell slot. This ability functions exactly as if the master summoner had used the same spell to counter another caster’s summoning spell. The master summoner senses any caster within 60’ casting a summoning spell and does not have to ready an action to counterspell. This ability uses his action for the round and changes his initiative to that of the opposing spellcaster.

Banishment: Once per day a master summoner can banish enemy summoned creatures as per the Banishment spell except that the target is a 60’ radius centered on the caster.

Spell Enhanced Summoning: Once per day, a master summoner may choose to expend an addition spell with a range of Touch or Personal when casting a summoning spell. All creatures summoned gain the benefit of the spell as if it had been cast on them. The extra spell is treated as a quickened spell for purposes of maximum number of spells per round (only one quickened spell per round). For example, a master summoner could summon 1d3 celestial black bears and choose to also expend Mage Armor to give them each the benefit of a Mage Armor spell (+4 AC).

Army of Allies (Ex): A 10th level Master Summoner is so proficient in his summoning skills that all Summon Monster spells summon twice the number of creatures as usual. This ability combines with the Extra Allies ability. This ability does work on summoning creatures of the highest level list, so a Summon Monster VI spell would summon two creatures from the 6th level list (and they do not have to be the same kind).

 

[yennico]

First: Wecome on board.

This is a prestige class I have been working on for my character. I need some advice on balancing things out (as I am sure they are unbalanced) but still maintain the flavor of a caster who can summon large numbers of creatures. I can drop some of the enhancement ideas, but then I would need to find some filler ideas for bringing in more creatures.

Enhancing summoned creatures affect all summoned creatures, so if you are bringing in more creatures more creatures are enhanced.
That sounds like a munchkin idea
The best way to summon more creatures: be a conjurer who memorizes only summon monster spells.

The scout reported back to his commander that a small unit of the opposing army was just over the hillside.
“The unit is small sir, fourteen soldiers and a wizard from the looks of it.”
“Get the men ready, we have them out numbered two-to-one. Make sure to spread out when we attack so the wizard can’t get us with a fireball or any other magical tricks.”

Jorlath Mirsham worried while his unit marched behind enemy lines. As second-in-command, he had to take control when their commander fell in battle. His main concern was getting what was left of the unit back to friendly territory. While crossing a river, he hears the distant sound of armored troops just before they emerge from the forest both behind and in front of them. Realizing they are outnumbered and unable to fight on both fronts, Jorlath raises his hands and begins chanting as a couple trained warriors move to protect him from incoming attacks. As he completes the spell, five black bears and four dire badgers appear between his unit and those ambushing them from behind and move to attack at his command. Quickly, his troops rush across the river and towards the other group of enemies as Jorlath’s words of magic signaled the coming of more allies to help turn the odds in their favor.

I like your text.

Requirements

To qualify to become a Master Summoner, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Skills: Knowledge (Planes) 10 ranks, Spellcraft 10 ranks, Knowledge (Arcana) 10 ranks

A wizard level 7 can fulfill this requirements, A bard or cleric level 7 also can fulfill this requirement if they have enough skill points. A sorcerer needs 20 levels to fullfill this requirement because knowledge (planes) is a cross class skill for a sorcerer.
Because you added diplomacy to the class skill list of a master summoner you should add as requirement: Diplomacy 3 ranks
Do you want that bards and clerics can enter your prc?
I would drop the requirements to:
Knowledge (Planes) 9 ranks, spellcraft 4 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.

Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Extend Spell, Skill Focus – Knowledge (planes)

4 feats as requirements for a level 7 character.
A non-human, non-wizard level 7 gets only 3 feats.
Nobody will take skill focus knowledge (planes) except for a prc (like yours or the loremaster), so you should drop one of the other feats. This feats can also be taken later.
You can not drop augment summoning because the master summoner gets improved augment summoning.

Spells: Able to cast 3rd level spells and must know Summon Monster from each spell level

Spells: must able to cast: Summon Monster I, II and III either as arcane or divine spell.

Special: Able to speak at least 3 planar languages

This is can be tough requirement. Only a wizard with a high int gets many bonus languages.
Speak Language is a cross class skill for a cleric and cleric do not have many skill points.
I would reduce this requirement to at least one planar languages.

The master summoner’s class skills are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (Int), Profession (Wis), Speak Language, and Spellcraft (Int)

For better reading: class skills: as wizard + diplomacy and speak language.

Also for better reading:
BAB: as wizard
Saves: as wizard
Spells: +1 one caster level except at level one and ten.

You have forgotten the HD.
HD: d4

Improved Augmentation (Ex): Each creature summoned by the Master Summoner receives a +4 enhancement bonus to Dexterity in addition to the Strength and Constitution bonus from Augmented Summoning.

+4 to dex means +2 to AC. A cool ability.

Communication (Sp): A Master Summoner can automatically communicate with any creature they have summoned. To anyone else listening, they are each speaking their own language, but they are able to understand each other similar to the familiar ability “speak with master.”

This is a combination of the tongues spell with the speak with animals.
I would say: Add speak with animals as spell level 3 to the spells a master summoner can learn.

Enhanced Specialization: A master summoner increases his devotion to the school of Conjuration. If the character was already a Conjurer, he must choose one additional prohibited school of magic (cannot be abjuration or divination). If the character was not specialized (whether a generalist wizard, sorcerer, etc.), he must choose two prohibited schools of magic (cannot be abjuration, divination, or conjuration). He can never again learn spells from these additional schools of magic, but is still able to cast spells from the schools that he previously learned and he can still use items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger that utilize spells he already knows. The master summoner does not gain any additional spells or bonuses to spellcraft from this enhanced specialization. Further, if the caster has the ability to swap spells previously learned (such as a bard or a sorcerer), he cannot choose to forget a Summon Monster spell.

This is only a disadvantage. A disadvantage a master summoner has to take.

Variable Allies (Ex): Any time the Master Summoner uses a Summon Monster spell to summon multiple creatures, they no longer have to be of the same kind. A Master Summoner using Summon Monster IV to summon 3 creatures from the 3rd level list could select any 3. For example, he could summon a Celestial Black Bear, a Celestial Hippogriff, and a Celestial Dire Badger (or any other combination).

IMHO a summoning is not a dominate summoned creature. So a dretch which is CE and hates celestials can attack any celestial animal also summoned by the master summoner. A celestial can attack an evil fiendish animal instead of attacking other of your enemies.

Spontaneous Summoning: A master summoner can choose to exchange any previously prepared spell for any Summon Monster spell of equal level. For example, a master summoner could choose to exchange a Fireball spell that he had previously prepared for a Summon Monster III spell. This ability obviously has no effect if the caster already has spontaneous spellcasting, such as a sorcerer or bard.

This is only a advantage for the wizard and the cleric.

1 level lower – 1d3+1
2 levels lower – 1d4+2
3 levels lower or more – 1d6+3

A neat ability, but I think the fixed numbers are too high
1 level lower – 1d3+1
2 levels lower – 1d6+1
3 levels lower or more – 1d10+1

Alternatively, the Master Summoner may use a Summon Monster spell to summon one creature for a duration of 10 minutes per level to perform non-combat related tasks. If commanded engage in combat, the summoned creature will return to it's plane of existance, ending the duration prematurely.

This is similar to the planar ally spell. The differences: planar ally has no limited duration (except finishing the task), the ally needs a payment and the spell costs XPs.
So drop your alternatively ability.

Of Both Worlds: Creatures summoned by a master summoner have the ability to bypass protections that would normally keep them out of an area, such as Protection from Evil or Magic Circle against Evil. The master summoner must make a Caster Level check against the spell for each creature. A success means that the creature is not blocked from entering the area and attacking those protected by the spell.

No way. A summoner can cast a dispel magic to try to dispel spells like Protection form Evil, etc.
This ability is more powerful than a (greater) dispel magic. Your ability is something like a spell targeted dispel magic on an area.
Dispel Magic limits the caster level to +10.

All summoned creatures also gain a +4 bonus to will saves against Dismissal or Banishment spells cast on them.

+4 on will saves is like 2x Iron Will feat.
Your of both worlds ability si not one but two special abilities (targeted dispel and iron will)

Denial (Su): Twice per day a master summoner may attempt to counterspell another’s summoning spell without using a spell slot. This ability functions exactly as if the master summoner had used the same spell to counter another caster’s summoning spell. The master summoner senses any caster within 60’ casting a summoning spell and does not have to ready an action to counterspell. This ability uses his action for the round and changes his initiative to that of the opposing spellcaster.

2x/day an automatic banishment without using a spell lost. This ability is too powerful.
Use the feat improved counterspell instead.

Banishment: Once per day a master summoner can banish enemy summoned creatures as per the Banishment spell except that the target is a 60’ radius centered on the caster.

A wizard 6/master summoner8 can cast the spell banishment at caster level 13.
So the range is 25 + 30 ft.

Spell Enhanced Summoning: Once per day, a master summoner may choose to expend an addition spell with a range of Touch or Personal when casting a summoning spell. All creatures summoned gain the benefit of the spell as if it had been cast on them. The extra spell is treated as a quickened spell for purposes of maximum number of spells per round (only one quickened spell per round). For example, a master summoner could summon 1d3 celestial black bears and choose to also expend Mage Armor to give them each the benefit of a Mage Armor spell (+4 AC).

No way. The summoner casts summon monster and some other spell in one round. The master summoner can not cast a quickened spell even if he has not the quicken feat.
Even if the summoner has the quicken feat this ability is too powerful.
With this ability a summoner can summon several creatures and grant them all the benefit of one spell (e.g. mage armor) instead of casting the mage armor spell for each creature.
Other example: bull´s strength. If the summoner uses bull strength with spell enhanced summoning he gains the benefit of a mass bull´s strength spell for no spell slot or a level 6 spell slot instead of a spell slot level 10 (quickened mass bull´s strength)

Army of Allies (Ex): A 10th level Master Summoner is so proficient in his summoning skills that all Summon Monster spells summon twice the number of creatures as usual. This ability combines with the Extra Allies ability. This ability does work on summoning creatures of the highest level list, so a Summon Monster VI spell would summon two creatures from the 6th level list (and they do not have to be the same kind).

Cast one summon monster and get double summoned monster. No way.
Think of this scenario:
IIRC in 3.0 you could summon an medium arrowhawk with summon monster V.
Using extra allies and army of allies I can summon with a summon monster VIII 2x(1d6+3).
This means 6+2d6 arrowhawks at mimimum 8 arrowhawks.
All arrowhawks are enhanced by augmented summoning and improved augmented summoning. Each arrowhawk can attack with an electricity ray doing 2d8 damage.....

 

[farscapesg1]

Thanks for the input, I need all the advice I can get on this. I don't want to create a prestige class that is too powerful, but I definitely want something that distinguishes the characters from just another summoner.

A wizard level 7 can fulfill this requirements, A bard or cleric level 7 also can fulfill this requirement if they have enough skill points. A sorcerer needs 20 levels to fullfill this requirement because knowledge (planes) is a cross class skill for a sorcerer.
Because you added diplomacy to the class skill list of a master summoner you should add as requirement: Diplomacy 3 ranks
Do you want that bards and clerics can enter your prc?
I would drop the requirements to:
Knowledge (Planes) 9 ranks, spellcraft 4 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.

My concept for the prestige class was to make it arcane caster only. More precisely, wizard only. In most classic literature, the best summoners have always been wizards. With the current incarnation of DND, that role has fallen to the Druid (for natural creatures) and Sorcerers beat out Wizards due to the large number of spells per day.

I have already been toying with the idea of adding Diplomacy to the list of requirements and just hadn't decided at what rank level I should put the requirement.

I also counted wrong. I had planned on the skill requirements to allow a wizard to enter the class at character level 6. I will drop these requirements to 9. Since I am designing it as a wizard only

4 feats as requirements for a level 7 character.
A non-human, non-wizard level 7 gets only 3 feats.
Nobody will take skill focus knowledge (planes) except for a prc (like yours or the loremaster), so you should drop one of the other feats. This feats can also be taken later.
You can not drop augment summoning because the master summoner gets improved augment summoning.

As you mentioned, Augment Summoning is required, as is Spell Focus (Conjuration) since it is a requirement for Augment Summoning. I guess I could drop the Extend Spell requirement. I'm actually thinking about dropping both Extend Spell and Skill Focus and replace them with Spell Mastery requiring two Summon Monster spells to be chosen. This would help restrict the class to Wizard only as I was wanting and make it only 3 required feats to enter the class.

I really didn't think that 4 feat requirements was that bad since the Loremaster requires the same amount.

This is can be tough requirement. Only a wizard with a high int gets many bonus languages.
Speak Language is a cross class skill for a cleric and cleric do not have many skill points.
I would reduce this requirement to at least one planar languages.

Again, since I originally designed it as a Wizard only, I didn't think it would be that big of an issue. Also, it made sense to require a fairly large number of planar languages for a character that focuses on summoning and controlling them.

This is a combination of the tongues spell with the speak with animals.
I would say: Add speak with animals as spell level 3 to the spells a master summoner can learn.

The problem is that not all creatures summoned by the spells are animals. This ability should only function with creatures summoned by the caster, not any planar creature he comes across. That is another reason for the large number of planar languages. Maybe I should have made it a telepathic communication between the summoned creatures and the caster?

This is only a disadvantage. A disadvantage a master summoner has to take.

Are you saying this is bad? I based the idea off the Red Wizard prestige class and added the extra disadvantage of not being able to swap out knowledge of summoning spells. If I add the requirement for Spell Mastery, I will probably drop the restriction of not being able to swap the spells out since Spell Mastery will effectively remove the possibility of Sorcerers taking the class.

A neat ability, but I think the fixed numbers are too high
1 level lower – 1d3+1
2 levels lower – 1d6+1
3 levels lower or more – 1d10+1

Hmm, I was afraid that granting higher dice would look "munchkin". I might use your idea, but I think 1d10+1 is too high so I would drop it to 1d8+1. My biggest concern to this ability is the combination of Maximize Spell or Empower Spell.

This is similar to the planar ally spell. The differences: planar ally has no limited duration (except finishing the task), the ally needs a payment and the spell costs XPs.
So drop your alternatively ability.

Since it was designed for Wizards only, they don't have access to Planar Ally (Cleric only spell). I wanted to give them something comparable, since Planer Binding is garbage compared to Planar Ally (another boon for Clerics being better summoners). How many wizards have a high enough Charisma to try to compete against demons and devils (not to mention they get a spell resistance check to break free).

No way. A summoner can cast a dispel magic to try to dispel spells like Protection form Evil, etc.
This ability is more powerful than a (greater) dispel magic. Your ability is something like a spell targeted dispel magic on an area.
Dispel Magic limits the caster level to +10.

+4 on will saves is like 2x Iron Will feat.
Your of both worlds ability si not one but two special abilities (targeted dispel and iron will)

This was one of my favorite abilities Any wizard can try to dispel an enemy's protections, but I thought it would more impressive for the summoned creatures to walk right through the protections. The protection spells are still there and each creature only gets one chance to ignore it. Maybe make a different check? Maybe just give the summoned creature a Will save (no bonuses) to ignore the protection spell?

As to the +4 to will saves, it only works against two spells. Iron will would give the benifit against any Will-based spells, so it doesn't really equal two feats. I could possibly split the abilities.

2x/day an automatic banishment without using a spell lost. This ability is too powerful.
Use the feat improved counterspell instead.

I'm still not sure how this it too powerful. I don't really like the idea of just giving Improved Counterspell. Maybe allow them to Counterspell with any spell slot (school doesn't matter) of the same level or higher (instead of 1 level or more higher as per the feat).

As to the Banishment ability, I can dop the range down to a 30' burst centered on the Master Summoner. Yes the caster in your example has a range of 55', but that is where the spell takes effect. It then has an area of 1 or more creatures within 30' of each other. This ability requires the enemy creatures to be near the Master Summoner.

No way. The summoner casts summon monster and some other spell in one round. The master summoner can not cast a quickened spell even if he has not the quicken feat.
Even if the summoner has the quicken feat this ability is too powerful.
With this ability a summoner can summon several creatures and grant them all the benefit of one spell (e.g. mage armor) instead of casting the mage armor spell for each creature.
Other example: bull´s strength. If the summoner uses bull strength with spell enhanced summoning he gains the benefit of a mass bull´s strength spell for no spell slot or a level 6 spell slot instead of a spell slot level 10 (quickened mass bull´s strength)

What if this ability did not work with the Extra Allies ability? That would limit the number of creatures summoned to 1d3 when calling lower-level creatures.

Any ideas for an alternative ability?

Cast one summon monster and get double summoned monster. No way.
Think of this scenario:
IIRC in 3.0 you could summon an medium arrowhawk with summon monster V.
Using extra allies and army of allies I can summon with a summon monster VIII 2x(1d6+3).
This means 6+2d6 arrowhawks at mimimum 8 arrowhawks.
All arrowhawks are enhanced by augmented summoning and improved augmented summoning. Each arrowhawk can attack with an electricity ray doing 2d8 damage.....

OK, I didn't think this one out very well Even limiting it to 1/day is probably too much. Any ideas for another ability?

 

[yennico]

Thanks for the input, I need all the advice I can get on this. I don't want to create a prestige class that is too powerful, but I definitely want something that distinguishes the characters from just another summoner.

An unique summoner prc is ok.

My concept for the prestige class was to make it arcane caster only. More precisely, wizard only.

I thought you want to build a prc for all spellcasters who get access to summoning spells.
To restrict the prc to wizards is ok for your campaign. This fact changes some of my advices.

I have already been toying with the idea of adding Diplomacy to the list of requirements and just hadn't decided at what rank level I should put the requirement.

Diplomacy is for a wizard a cross class skill. If a wizard can enter your prc minimum at level 6 the maximum rank for diplomacy is 3.

I had planned on the skill requirements to allow a wizard to enter the class at character level 6. I will drop these requirements to 9. Since I am designing it as a wizard only

For a wizard only prc this is ok.

As you mentioned, Augment Summoning is required, as is Spell Focus (Conjuration) since it is a requirement for Augment Summoning. I guess I could drop the Extend Spell requirement.

A summoner will take with the exception of the skill focus all these feats.

I'm actually thinking about dropping both Extend Spell and Skill Focus and replace them with Spell Mastery requiring two Summon Monster spells to be chosen.

I dislike replacing the two feats with spell mastery. Spell mastery must be taken at level 5 or 6 so the wizard has access only to level 3 spells.
A wizard level 5 or 6 has an average int of 16-19 without magic items. So he will get 3 or 4 spells. You force this wizard to take from 3 or 4 spells 2 summoning spells which can only be summon monster I, II or III.
Question: Which high level wizard needs summon monster II at high levels.

This would help restrict the class to Wizard only as I was wanting and make it only 3 required feats to enter the class.

My advice for three feats only was based on the assumption that you want to build a prc for all spellcasters with access to summoning spells.

I really didn't think that 4 feat requirements was that bad since the Loremaster requires the same amount.

The four feat requirement is only bad if you want non-wizards to enter the prc at level 6.
The easiest way to enter the the loremaster prc is to be a wizard level 7.
A human cleric also can enter the loremaster at level 7, but the non-human clerics can enter the loremaster prc at level 9. There is one exception for non-humans to enter the loremaster prc at level 7 if the cleric has a domain which grants him a bonus metamagic feat (e.g. IIRC Orc cleric of Ilneval with planning domain.)
IMHO the loremaster prc is primary designed for wizards. I can not think of a cleric loremaster, with the exception of a cleric of a god with knowledge domain.
You want to design a prc (nearly) for wizards only so the requirements can be four feats.

Here my advice:
required feats: spell focus (conjuration), skill focus knowledge (planes) and augmented summoning
Even a non-human wizard has one free feat. He can choose a feat of his own personal taste also extend spell. If you require the feat extend spell, all non-human wizards will have the same feats.

Again, since I originally designed it as a Wizard only, I didn't think it would be that big of an issue. Also, it made sense to require a fairly large number of planar languages for a character that focuses on summoning and controlling them.

For a wizard who normally have an high int it is an easy requirement. Because you want to design a wizard only prc you do not have to change this requirement.

The problem is that not all creatures summoned by the spells are animals. This ability should only function with creatures summoned by the caster, not any planar creature he comes across. That is another reason for the large number of planar languages.

Despite I would use the ability to cast the tongues spell as requirement for your prc.

Maybe I should have made it a telepathic communication between the summoned creatures and the caster?

This sound like the special ability of some devils and demons.

Are you saying this is bad?

I´m not saying it is bad. Your ability is an disadvantage which can be used for balancing the class.

I based the idea off the Red Wizard prestige class and added the extra disadvantage of not being able to swap out knowledge of summoning spells.

Wizards can not swap out spells they write the spells they have learned in their spellbooks. Even if a sorcerer enters your prc at high level because being knowledge (planes) a cross class skill, he certainly will not swap his summoning spells because several feats and special abilities of your prc enhances the summoning spells. If he swaps summoning spell it is his problem.

Hmm, I was afraid that granting higher dice would look "munchkin". I might use your idea, but I think 1d10+1 is too high so I would drop it to 1d8+1.

You wanted more creatures so you can grant either a higher fixed bonus or a higher dice.
High fixed bonus numbers are bad. Look at 1d4+2 and 1d6. The maximum number is the same but the average roll of 1d6 is 3,5 and 4,5 of the 1d4+2.
My proposal was only a suggestion. You can tone it down.
1d8+1 is also ok.

My biggest concern to this ability is the combination of Maximize Spell or Empower Spell.

I played only a wizard up to level 17 back in 3.0 and summoning spells are not my favorites.

Since it was designed for Wizards only, they don't have access to Planar Ally (Cleric only spell). I wanted to give them something comparable, since Planer Binding is garbage compared to Planar Ally (another boon for Clerics being better summoners). How many wizards have a high enough Charisma to try to compete against demons and devils (not to mention they get a spell resistance check to break free).

I disagree. IIRC A cleric can summon with planar ally only a creature of the alignment of his deity. The cleric has to pay gps for the service and XPs.

A wizard can choose which creature he wants. He can decide which creature is the best for the job or which creature is easy to convince to do the job.

A creature summoned by planar binding can only escape by:
1. successfully pitting its spell resistance against your caster level check
2. by dimensional travel
3. with a successful Charisma check (DC 15 + 1/2 your caster level + your Cha modifier).

1. To cast lesser planar binding a wizard has to be level 9, planar binding requires level 11 and greater planar binding level 16. If you choose a creature with a high SR you should be prepared.
2. Not all creature can cast dimension door, teleport or planeshift.
Dimensional Anchor is also your friend.
3. A wizard can boost his charisma temporay by a spell or permanent by a magical item.

This was one of my favorite abilities Any wizard can try to dispel an enemy's protections, but I thought it would more impressive for the summoned creatures to walk right through the protections. The protection spells are still there and each creature only gets one chance to ignore it. Maybe make a different check? Maybe just give the summoned creature a Will save (no bonuses) to ignore the protection spell?

If you have many summoned creatures it is difficult to track which creature can enter which area.
Yes any wizard can tzry to dispel spells, but a summoner do not only need summoning spells also abjuration spells to dispel the protections or to protect himself.
Perhaps you can grant the summoner a +2 on dispelling checks.
I remember an ability of the 3.0 incantatrix (a broken class).
He recieved the powerful send away ability: that means +2 on all dispel and caster level checks to harm, banish or overcome the spell resistance of outsiders. This includes dispel checks to dispel summon monster spells.

As to the +4 to will saves, it only works against two spells. Iron will would give the benifit against any Will-based spells, so it doesn't really equal two feats.

Perhaps this ability can reworked.
Follow only the leader: All summoned creature get a +2 bonus on their will saves.
(this is like +4 on Wis like augmented summoning but a bonus on wis also raises the DC of spells etc...)

I could possibly split the abilities.

That would be better.

I'm still not sure how this it too powerful. I don't really like the idea of just giving Improved Counterspell. Maybe allow them to Counterspell with any spell slot (school doesn't matter) of the same level or higher (instead of 1 level or more higher as per the feat).

I dislike giving the ability to counter a spell for free without using a spell slot.
You want to give your summoner a better ability to counter summoning spell from other casters. A summoner has many conjuration spells and to counter a summon monster spell you need a conjuration spell.
I am not very familiar with counterspelling, but perhaps you can look at the archmage prc
High Arcana: Spell-like ability. For a 5 level spell slot and a spell slot of the original spell the archmage can cast 2x day the original spell als spell-like ability. Greater dispelling is a good chocie or summon monster spell.

As to the Banishment ability, I can dop the range down to a 30' burst centered on the Master Summoner. Yes the caster in your example has a range of 55', but that is where the spell takes effect. It then has an area of 1 or more creatures within 30' of each other. This ability requires the enemy creatures to be near the Master Summoner.

I missed the point 30 feet of each other in the banishment spell. So your ability sound ok if you drop the range down to 30 feet burst centered on the summoner.

What if this ability did not work with the Extra Allies ability? That would limit the number of creatures summoned to 1d3 when calling lower-level creatures.

Any ideas for an alternative ability?

No to your proposal.
1. only a summoner with the quicken feat should be able to cast a quicken spell.
2. Even if the summoner has the quicken feat for two or three creatures the summoner needs a quicken mass bull´s strength spell. I will not grant level 10 spells for free.

Besides a bonus metamagic feat reduced spell slot cost for one metamagic feat e.g. extend spell for no spell slot cost.

OK, I didn't think this one out very well Even limiting it to 1/day is probably too much. Any ideas for another ability?

Perhaps Improved Familiar so the summoner gets an extraplanar familiar. Or the summoner infuses in a ritual his familiar with energies from other planes so the familiar gets the fiendish or celestial template (not the half-fiend/or half-celestial).

 

[farscapesg1]

Thanks for the advice. I was hoping to get a little more feedback from other users, but I guess nobody really pays much attention to Prestige Class postings (or don't feel like posting comments on them).

One thing about the the Denial ability is that we are using the Unearthed Arcana rules for specialist wizards. For example, my character gave up the Summon Familiar ability and instead can cast Summon Monster spells as a Standard Action instead of a Full-Round Action. I have to assume that other conjurers would do the same in our game, so just knowing that someone is casting a Summon Monster spell in the vacinity wouldn't do me any good unless my character had readied an action to dispel summoning spells. Considering there is a feat that gives you an extra spell slot, at best this would be the equivalent of two feats, but in reality it is much more restricted since an extra spell slot could be used for any spell and this ability is limited strictly to Summon Monster spells (or the counterspelling of them to be more precise).

 

[yennico]

I was hoping to get a little more feedback from other users, but I guess nobody really pays much attention to Prestige Class postings (or don't feel like posting comments on them).

1. There are many prcs posted here (everbody thinks he can design a prc ) and enough prcs are printed in books. Some users are tired of new prcs.
2. Some of the prcs posted here are owerpowered and not balanced. The users here are tired of adjusting too powerful prcs.
3. The name of your prc does not sound interesting. The topic of summoning is already covered by the thaumaturgist, so some might think your class is something for a homebrew setting
4. You are a newbie in this forum. You do not have a high post count so somebody reads your topcis because he knows and loves your writings.

One thing about the the Denial ability is that we are using the Unearthed Arcana rules for specialist wizards. For example, my character gave up the Summon Familiar ability and instead can cast Summon Monster spells as a Standard Action instead of a Full-Round Action.

A nice ability. A familiar is not a good choice for a conjurer because he has not so much touch spells. I play a wizard often without a familiar (with no exchange)because most of the time IMHO a familiar is useless.

I have to assume that other conjurers would do the same in our game,

Yes most conjurers and sorcerers with summoning spells would do the same, but a) not all and b) clerics can not do the same.
Not all conjurers want to get rid of their familiars. Some conjurers like delivering touch spells by their familiar.

so just knowing that someone is casting a Summon Monster spell in the vacinity wouldn't do me any good unless my character had readied an action to dispel summoning spells.

IMHO you can only counterspell a spell if you have a higher initiatve then the other spellcaster and have a readied action for this. IMHO countetrspelling needs an action, without requiring an action a spellcaster can cast two spells per round (one for his action, one to counterspell a spell).
As a caster with the higher initatiive you can either cast a spell (summon monster or any other spell) or ready an action to counter the spell of an enemy spellcaster.

Considering there is a feat that gives you an extra spell slot, at best this would be the equivalent of two feats, but in reality it is much more restricted since an extra spell slot could be used for any spell and this ability is limited strictly to Summon Monster spells (or the counterspelling of them to be more precise).

With Summon Monster spells as standard action your summoner have an advantage over many spellcasters who use only summon monster spells.
With the denial ability you allow the summoner to casts two spells per round if the enemy spellcaster casts an summon monster spell.

 

[farscapesg1]

With Summon Monster spells as standard action your summoner have an advantage over many spellcasters who use only summon monster spells.
With the denial ability you allow the summoner to casts two spells per round if the enemy spellcaster casts an summon monster spell.

I think this is where you are confused about the ability. Maybe I didn't make the mechanics clear in the ability description.

When uing the Denial ability (usable 2 times per day), the character automatically senses the casting of a summoning spell. He can choose to make use of the ability to automatically counterspell the opposing caster. This is his action for the round and is a standard action. It functions just like he readied an action for the round, and can only be used if he has not already acted in the round. The only way he could get two actions in the round is to have a quickened spell prepared that he can use after the Denial ability.

 

[Bront]

My concept for the prestige class was to make it arcane caster only. More precisely, wizard only. In most classic literature, the best summoners have always been wizards. With the current incarnation of DND, that role has fallen to the Druid (for natural creatures) and Sorcerers beat out Wizards due to the large number of spells per day.

Just a comment on this...

Generaly, the idea of prestiege classes is to make a class as it would appear in a world, not to tailor it to a particular character or class unless there is no reason any other class should be able to take it (IE, PrCs that modify shape changing, animal companions, spell casting, ect, which are tailored to fewer classes inherantly).

Wizards, Clerics and Druids are inherantly better for this class, simply because they get the higher level summons a level sooner than a Sorcerer or Bard. Summon Monster is generaly slightly better than Summons Natures Ally per level (examine the CRs), so that leans it even more towards Clerics and Wizards. A cleric is likely giving up more to get into this class (No turning progression, only 1 good save, lower BAB, lower HD), so ultimately, a Wizard is much better suited for the PrC already, without you limiting it so only a wizard can get into it.

Open it up to all classes. Lower the skill reqs a bit (6 ranks Planar Knowlege, 8 Knowledge Arcana, 8 Spellcraft), drop the extend spell and skill focus from the feats, and drop it to 1 planar language. Wizard is still the best way in it, but other characters who want to join it, even if it's not the most optimal for them, can.

Then, tweek the abilities to function with that in mind.

An interesting ability I thought of:
A Summoning Master learns to making summoning easier and less draining of his magical resources. Starting at level 2, the Summoning master may memorise and/or cast an additional spell that MUST be a summoning spell (Summon creature/nature's ally, the planar ally spells, etc). At 2nd, it is only a first level spell. Each level after that, you add the next spell level up (IE 2nd level spell at 3rd level, 3rd level spell at 4th level, etc). The caster must be able to cast this spell level normaly (ability reqs, and an already existing spell slot (even if it is 0) in that level of spells) in order to benifit from the additional spell.

I think that works better than free spontinaity, works for ALL spell casters, and is a scaling ability (Reasons to take the class all the way up).

 

[yennico]

Generaly, the idea of prestiege classes is to make a class as it would appear in a world, not to tailor it to a particular character or class unless there is no reason any other class should be able to take it

That´s right. The use of farscapes1´s prc is very limited. The prc is only for wizards who favour summonings.

Wizards, Clerics and Druids are inherantly better for this class, simply because they get the higher level summons a level sooner than a Sorcerer or Bard. Summon Monster is generaly slightly better than Summons Natures Ally per level (examine the CRs), so that leans it even more towards Clerics and Wizards. A cleric is likely giving up more to get into this class (No turning progression, only 1 good save, lower BAB, lower HD), so ultimately, a Wizard is much better suited for the PrC already, without you limiting it so only a wizard can get into it.

A correct analysis.

Open it up to all classes. Lower the skill reqs a bit (6 ranks Planar Knowlege, 8 Knowledge Arcana, 8 Spellcraft), drop the extend spell

I agree with Bront.

and skill focus from the feats,

I disagree. To enter a prc a character must make choices in feats which are not always the best.

and drop it to 1 planar language. Wizard is still the best way in it, but other characters who want to join it, even if it's not the most optimal for them, can.

I agree with Bront..

An interesting ability I thought of:
A Summoning Master learns to making summoning easier and less draining of his magical resources. Starting at level 2, the Summoning master may memorise and/or cast an additional spell that MUST be a summoning spell (Summon creature/nature's ally, the planar ally spells, etc). At 2nd, it is only a first level spell. Each level after that, you add the next spell level up (IE 2nd level spell at 3rd level, 3rd level spell at 4th level, etc). The caster must be able to cast this spell level normaly (ability reqs, and an already existing spell slot (even if it is 0) in that level of spells) in order to benifit from the additional spell.

I think that works better than free spontinaity, works for ALL spell casters, and is a scaling ability (Reasons to take the class all the way up).

I agree with Bront on the free spontanity topic. The free spontanity imbalances the game. It favours wizards over other summon monster spellcasters.
IMC I would not allow this "feat".
But I disagree with Bront on his proposal of an ability. One ability of the master summoner should be a specialization in conjuring for free. Specialization normally requires to give up two schools. So a conjurer who takes the master summoner prc has two bonus spell slots per level for a summon monster spells.
A bonus spell slot even limiting to summon monster spell is worth (nearly) one feat.
To enter the master summoner the character must be level six. A spellcaster level 6/master summoner 10 gets 8 bonus spell slots (one for each level). That means nearly one feat per master summoner level.

 

[Bront]

But I disagree with Bront on his proposal of an ability. One ability of the master summoner should be a specialization in conjuring for free. Specialization normally requires to give up two schools. So a conjurer who takes the master summoner prc has two bonus spell slots per level for a summon monster spells.
A bonus spell slot even limiting to summon monster spell is worth (nearly) one feat.
To enter the master summoner the character must be level six. A spellcaster level 6/master summoner 10 gets 8 bonus spell slots (one for each level). That means nearly one feat per master summoner level.

Glad you agree with most things, and that I'm making sense (Or you just share my madness, but that's fine too).

I've read somewhere that WoTC feals that +2 to a stat is approximately the equivilant to 1 feat. +2 to the spellcasting stat gives you as many as 3 new spell slots (Granted, it's at 28+, but still) and a +1 DC. So, every 3 levels, you get almost the equivilent of 1 free feat (The extra spell slots, though no DC change), and you still have to be able to use them. I don't think it's too bad (I'm not saying it works with every other class ability, I didn't break them all down yet).

Given this is a pure spellcaster class, you should almost never loose a caster level. (Though, they did that with the Recaster in Races of Eberron) I would try to balance it out to gain +1 caster level per level.

Drop enhanced specialization. The 1st level powers are fine.

I think Variable Allies could be interesting, but you could easily add that at 3rd level instead of spontanious summoning. You should limit it to creatures within 1 alignment, so they don't attack each other. I like the 2nd level power I suggested personaly.

Ditch Spontanious summoning.

I like Extra Allies the way you have it written up actualy. I like having a more rigid number of allies. 1D10+1 leaves too many variables out there, and a Master Summoner should be able to rely on getting some minimum of help.

I like Extended Summoning, but I would ditch the 10 minute non-combat thing. There are summons that work fine for non-combat things. (Mount for example)

Of both worlds is too powerfull. Ditch it. Maybe just leave this particular level power blank.

Don't like Denial. Too powerfull. I would suggest Enlarge Summoning instead. The range on summon monster is a big deal (The monsters can't ever leave that distance from you or else they disapear), so this is VERY usefull, and not too powerfull given the level you are giving it at (7th or 8th). You may want to decide that you can't stack this iwth Extend Summoning for free, so you need to pick one or the other if you think that this is stacking too much.

Banishment is flavorful, and cool. I like it, and it's a once a day thing. I could see this being the 10th level power, or leaving it at 8th (and putting Enlarge Summoning at 7th). Flavor text could say "The Master Summoner learns the secret of sending creatures back where they came from in addition to calling them into this plane."

I like the Spell Enhanced Summoning. I don't think it should be "casting as if quickened", but simply allow you to target one summoned group with a spell basicly as a free action (it's woven into your current casting). However, if the spell normaly only effects one person, only effect one of them. If it effects them all, then it's ok. Extra targets do not filter over to non-conjured creatures. I think that the caster must have the spell used to augment his summons memorised when the summon is cast too. Personal spells (Like Mage Armor, Tensor's Transformation, or the like) should NOT be allowed to be used this way, only augmentation spells that can be cast on others. If the spell is lost while casting it, you loose all spell slots involved. This is a good 8th-10th level power.

Army is too powerfull. Might I suggest Greatest Augment Summoning, which grants a +6 stat bonus instead of +4 (To all 3 physical stats). +1 to hit, +1 to Damage, +1 to AC, +1 to Init, and +1 HP per HD is quite usefull. This might fit in well a bit earlier, allowing you to push Banish and Spell Enhancing Summoning up a bit (Maybe this at 8th, Spell Enhanced Summoning at 9th, and Banish at 10th)

Hope this helps. (And makes sense)