Main gauche + combat expertise

[Halivar]

I've been giving some thought to two-weapon fighting, and I think the imprtant role of the main gauche is not fairly represented. A main gauche was a heavy-bladed dagger or short sword that was wielded in the off-hand to parry incoming rapier thrusts. When openings presented themselves, it could also be used to make nasty stabs. Main gauches were sometimes made with oversized guards to emphasize their defensive nature.

Anyhow, here's an idea I got:

Introduce a main gauche as weapon with stats similar to a dagger. If you have TWF and Combat Expertise and are using a main gauche, you have the option of applying the Combat Expertise feat exclusively to your offhand for an AC bonus against rapiers or small melee weapons.

Any comments?

 

[DanMcS]

Introduce a main gauche as weapon with stats similar to a dagger. If you have TWF and Combat Expertise and are using a main gauche, you have the option of applying the Combat Expertise feat exclusively to your offhand for an AC bonus against rapiers or small melee weapons.
Any comments?

I think it's a bit too good. You get the benefits of CE, but none of the penalties to your main attack series. It doesn't hurt any AoOs you get to take, doesn't penalize you if you need to defend against a Disarm later in the round, that kind of thing.

I think I would rather let CE work kinda like power attack: if you use combat expertise while wielding a shield, or an off-handed weapon and have two-weapon defense, each point of penalty you take on your attack provides +2 points of defense.

Buffs up the sword-and-boarders a bit, but still helps out two-weapon fighters as long as they have two-weapon defense.

 

[sfedi]

That seems too good, too.

Maybe make it a poor off-hand weapon, but make it provide a Shield Bonus.

What about a dagger like weapon that is martial or require EWP that when wielded off hand adds +1 Shield Bonus (not enhanceable by spell).
Maybe it could raise to +2 if you take the Two Weapon Defense Feat.

 

[dvvega]

You could always make a feat in the TWF chain.

Already Available
----------------
Two Weapon Fighting - allows the use of the rapier/main gauche combination
Two Weapon Defence - you get the +1 AC

New Feat (Or Weapon Style)
---------
Two Weapon Attack/Parry
Prerequisites: TWF, TWD, Combat Reflexes
You forgo your offhand attack (attacks if you have more due to ITWF) but keep all your standard penalties, and may apply a further +1 AC bonus against weapons that are the same size or up to one category smaller than your off-hand weapon. If the weapon is magical then it's enhancement bonus is also added to this AC bonus.
If the attacker misses you, you may make an AOO against them with your off-hand weapon. This AOO is triggered uniquely per attack therefore you may get the opportunity to make multiples.




Or something like that.

 

[darthkilmor]

You could always make a feat in the TWF chain.

Already Available
----------------
Two Weapon Fighting - allows the use of the rapier/main gauche combination
Two Weapon Defence - you get the +1 AC

New Feat (Or Weapon Style)
---------
Two Weapon Attack/Parry
Prerequisites: TWF, TWD, Combat Reflexes
You forgo your offhand attack (attacks if you have more due to ITWF) but keep all your standard penalties, and may apply a further +1 AC bonus against weapons that are the same size or up to one category smaller than your off-hand weapon. If the weapon is magical then it's enhancement bonus is also added to this AC bonus.
If the attacker misses you, you may make an AOO against them with your off-hand weapon. This AOO is triggered uniquely per attack therefore you may get the opportunity to make multiples.

that seems a bit much, you get to attack someone every time they miss you?
What about just using an offhand weapon defensively if its one size catagory smaller than your main weapon?

Offhand Weapon Defense
Prereq: Combat Reflexes(maybe twd)
You wield a smaller weapon(one size catagory smaller than your main weapon) in your offhand as if it were a shield, as long as you didn't attack with it that round. Any enhancement bonus on the offhand weapon is applied to your AC.
Optionally, during an AoO you may use your offhand weapon, with a +2 bonus to hit and +1 damage, as you are able to strike faster and deadlier with it.

 

[dvvega]

Well I thought that the TWF penalties would offset the advantage a little.

However you could have your Offhand Parry as a prerequisite as well, cutting my feat "in half" and have a nice chain going there.

 

[Tuzon Thume]

I've been following this thread since I have a concept for a swashbuckler and part of the concept includes rapier and main gauche. have WoTC put it in any sourcebook?

 

[Nyaricus]

Any comments?

have WoTC put it in any sourcebook?

Not a WotC book, but From Stone To Steel (was Monkeygod, they got bought or something . . . ) is a book with around 3000 years of weapon info - from the stone age to the end of the renaissance, hence From Stone To Steel. Has the Main Gauche (literally, "left hand") stats, which are indeed identical to a dagger, it stresses a larger hilt (which didn't do anything in combat, but a nice touch) and a new feat for the Duelist PrC, called Off Hand Parry.

Adds a deflection bonus to their armour class equal to their BAB minus (only) two-weapon fighting and off-hand penalties [this is 3.0 mind you; the new version of it IS 3.5]. anyways, max bonus that can be gained is +5, prereqs are proficientcy with weapon in off hand, two-weapon fighting feat, BAB +7 or greater.

Trust me though, buy the book - there are so many cool things, whether it be weapons armour, facts or functions of weapons or armours, it's all so cool!

Hope that helps you guys.

 

[Stalker0]

Arcana Evolved has rules for this if you would like to use them.

Whenever you are using a main gauche and you fight defensively (keep in mind this is not the same as combat expertise) you add +2 to your AC (and this applies to touch AC as well).

If you want to apply this further, AE also has a class that has the ability to parry. They choose one opponent and can parry his melee attacks. You can add that bonus from the main gauche when parrying without using defensive fighting.

 

[Cabral]

A main gauche (translation: "left hand") doesn't provide a defense just by carrying it. It's designed to be able to catch weapons better, like the Sai. Using a main gauche to defend just means you used Combat Expertise with more flavor

The Arcana Evolved rules sound decent except for applying the bonus to touch attacks. In my opinion, it should apply a +1 or +2 shield bonus when used defensively.