Magic Missiles and concealment

[iwatt]

Basically the subject is self explanatory. Last night the sorcerer in my camapign with magic missile kept hitting with her magic missiles, even when the creatures had the benefit of concealment. This is because of magic missiles auto hit quality. I was slightly troubled by the fact that teh archer ranger who never misses (and great spot) was victimized while the low spot sorc could always hit. I generally have no problem with Magic missile (each round MMed is a round in which the sorc isn't doing soething more effective) but I had a problem with auto hit. I run a large group so I didn't have the time to take a stand either way last night. So how do you handle it.

Basically my question is: Is MM affected by Concealment?

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

Basically my question is: Is MM affected by Concealment?

Only by total concealment, which prevents the spellcaster from seeing the target and therefore makes it impossible to cast Magic Missile at them.

Anything less than total concealment, and it automatically hits (subject to the Shield spell, spell resistance, Globes of Invulnerability, and/or a Brooch of Shielding, of course).

--
if you think that might mean it's overpowered, you're probably right
ryan

 

[Patlin]

That's all correct, and I just wanted to add a "subject to." Subject to squishing the sorceror if the sorceror manages to make himself the primary focus for the bad guys. Chase the Sorceror around a bit and see if you can't convince the player to spend some time casting the occasional defensive spell. A round casting mirror image is a round not casting magic missile.

 

[hong]

Eh. Magic missile is probably better than most other 1st level spells, but in the grand scheme of things, even a good 1st level spell will be overshadowed by a 4th level spell. Consider that while the MM may be guaranteed damage, 3.5 points per missile is still not that much in absolute terms. By the time it starts to really dish out good damage, the sorc will have much better spells at their disposal.

 

[Treebore]

Yep, if they can see it they can magic missile it. The only thing I can think of to bablance it out a little more is to make the Sorc. roll a successful spot check to spot/see the concealed target. Once combat starts the DC won't be all that high, but may make the Sorc miss a round or two. The archer needs to take a feat that lets them ignore all but total concealment for AC adjustments. But think of being on the other end. Do you want your cover to be worthless? Or do you want it to at least have a chance of stopping most arrows and maybe make a spellcaster take too long to cast a spell?

1st rule of D&D survival, target/kill the enemy spellcasters first! Making that sorceror worry about being hit, or actually hitting him, will also help balance things out.

 

[AuraSeer]

If the caster has line of effect to the target, and can see it, then a targeted spell always hits. That's any spell with a Target entry (as opposed to Effect or Area).

People seem to complain about this autohit for magic missile, but never for other targeted spells like command or heat metal or hold person. IMO that's because most other target spells don't evoke the image of something visibly flying out from the caster. If MM was renamed Hand of Vader, and just did its damage from range without actually firing missiles (yet all game effects remained the same), I doubt anyone would have an issue with its ignoring of concealment.

 

[iwatt]

Yep, if they can see it they can magic missile it. The only thing I can think of to bablance it out a little more is to make the Sorc. roll a successful spot check to spot/see the concealed target. Once combat starts the DC won't be all that high, but may make the Sorc miss a round or two. The archer needs to take a feat that lets them ignore all but total concealment for AC adjustments. But think of being on the other end. Do you want your cover to be worthless? Or do you want it to at least have a chance of stopping most arrows and maybe make a spellcaster take too long to cast a spell?

1st rule of D&D survival, target/kill the enemy spellcasters first! Making that sorceror worry about being hit, or actually hitting him, will also help balance things out.

As I said, I'm not worried about MM's damage ouput. And just for those of you wondering I dropped both Sorcerers and the Archer ranger through judicious use of posioned arrows. My question rose from the fact that a spellcaster automatically get's to target a creature she can't see all that well (concealment) and through MMs autohit she will always hit. While an uber-spot platform (say an tipical Archer) will still be affected wit this miss chance. Or put another way. If the sorc can't really see the target through the foliage, how can she be certain not to hit the tree instead of the wererat?

 

[andargor]

If the sorc can't really see the target through the foliage, how can she be certain not to hit the tree instead of the wererat?

That's sort of the function of Hide:

Stealth and Detection in a Forest: In a sparse forest, the maximum distance at which a Spot check for detecting the nearby presence of others can succeed is 3d6x10 feet. In a medium forest, this distance is 2d8x10 feet, and in a dense forest it is 2d6x10 feet.

Because any square with undergrowth provides concealment, it's usually easy for a creature to use the Hide skill in the forest. Logs and massive trees provide cover, which also makes hiding possible.

The background noise in the forest makes Listen checks more difficult, increasing the DC of the check by 2 per 10 feet, not 1 (but note that Move Silently is also more difficult in undergrowth).

You could require a Spot vs Hide check to see if the Sorcerer chooses the right target. Of course, once the target is chosen, the missiles hit, but they may not hit what the Sorcerer wanted...

Andargor

 

[DarkMaster]

As I said, I'm not worried about MM's damage ouput. And just for those of you wondering I dropped both Sorcerers and the Archer ranger through judicious use of posioned arrows. My question rose from the fact that a spellcaster automatically get's to target a creature she can't see all that well (concealment) and through MMs autohit she will always hit. While an uber-spot platform (say an tipical Archer) will still be affected wit this miss chance. Or put another way. If the sorc can't really see the target through the foliage, how can she be certain not to hit the tree instead of the wererat?

Well seeing and hitting are two different things.

I personally have no problem with the spell, actually the sorcerer IMC didn't even selected the spell he felt that sleep was more effective at low level. Now he is 8 and never felt like switching his almost useless sleep for MM.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Eh. Magic missile is probably better than most other 1st level spells, but in the grand scheme of things, even a good 1st level spell will be overshadowed by a 4th level spell. Consider that while the MM may be guaranteed damage, 3.5 points per missile is still not that much in absolute terms. By the time it starts to really dish out good damage, the sorc will have much better spells at their disposal.

Which is why Magic Missile will stay in D&D. If the better spells don't work, there's always Magic Missile. It's not good enough to be a first line spell.