D&D 5E Mage armor and A shield

[Sezarious]

Hi all

I've got another one for you...


Mage armor (page 256 PHB):

-Sets your base AC to 13 plus your dex mod.
-Armor doesn't stack with it. Specifically armor.

Shields (page 144 PHB):

-"Wielding a shield INCREASES your AC by 2".

According to what I read, a shield is NOT technically considered armor and mechanically it provides a shield bonus increase as opposed to setting AC.

If this is true and correct, a character could play, say an elven lv1 fighter, lv2 warlock with a shield and the armor of shadows invocation. Base AC 13 + dex 5 + shield bonus +2= 20.

Now I am aware that there have been several posts asking as to whether mage armor stacks with armor or with the shield spell and I understand those combinations, but no-one seems to have queried mage armor and an actual shield specifically.

I predict most people would say "I would be ruling no they don't stack, because it's OP"and that's fine, I'm more interested though on your take on the specific wording.

If my theory were correct, this would certainly be broken wouldn't it?

I'm sure I'll have more cans of worms for everyone later. I'm here all week!

 

[jadrax]

I believe they probably should stack.

Not really sure why you believe this would be broken.

 

[jodyjohnson]

The only thing I see broken there is rolling stats and assuming you get an 18. Otherwise you've just power-gamed your way into having no hands free for spellcasting.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If my theory were correct, this would certainly be broken wouldn't it?

Nope, I wouldn't say it was. PCs can get ACs of 20. It's not that big of a deal. Especially considering your calculations involve having this 3rd level elven fighter/warlock with Dexterity of 20 already. *That's* the atypical part of your calculations-- the rolled stats and getting the 18. Going by a typical buy array, your elven PC should really only have a 16 or 17 DEX, for a +3... meaning that Mage Armor + DEX + a shield gives an AC of 18. And an elven fighter/warlock with an AC of 18 isn't broken at all... especially considering the multiclassing has pushed back his acquiring of stat bonuses by at least one level.

Now granted... this response is entirely just about whether the AC at a certain level is "broken"... not whether Mage Armor and a shield should stack. Personally... I have no dog in that fight and couldn't care less how any individual DM would rule it. I personally would be fine with it, because the player is giving up a lot of things in order to acquire both the Mage Armor spell *and* proficiency in shields... so I believe it's self-regulating. But at the base level... a PC at 3rd level with an AC of 18 is fine in my opinion. And even with an AC of 20 because they've rolled their stats and got the mythical 18 on 4d6.

 

[AverageCitizen]

The only thing I see broken there is rolling stats and assuming you get an 18. Otherwise you've just power-gamed your way into having no hands free for spellcasting.

I think he is assuming max dex as a result of ability score increases.

 

[Cernor]

RAW shields are just another type of armour (under the shield rather than light, medium, or heavy category) so it wouldn't stack: you can see that the barbarian's Unarmoured Defense specifically calls out working even with a shield, whereas Mage Armour doesn't make that distinction.

 

[Dausuul]

By my reading, they do indeed stack, and I would allow it. It's no more OP than full plate and shield, which that same fighter/warlock could get without wasting an invocation and investing in 20 Dex. I don't see the problem.

There's this weird obsession with "breaking the game" by getting an AC in the low to mid-20s. I really don't understand why this is supposed to be so disastrous. Congratulations, you're hard to hit. Your fellow PCs aren't. You're still vulnerable to spells and AoEs. Even if you squeeze out an AC of 30+, with tarrasques and ancient dragons missing you more often than not, it's a minor exploit at most. As a DM, if that's the worst shenanigans my players get up to, I'll be pretty bored.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I would allow it. In the armor section, they talk about how shields augment the base armor, and when they describe the types of armor (light, medium, heavy), that does not include shields. So I view mage armor like a suit of magically conjured armor, and thus could stack with a shield.

 

[Wolf118]

Our group doesn't allow this combo, not because it 'breaks' the game or the concept, but because the RAW doesn't allow for it, and we agree with the RAW. There are 3 places (in our opinion) that contradict the use of the shield with Mage Armor:

- p144, PHB: "Armor Class (AC). Armor protects its wearer from attacks. The armor (and shield) you wear determines your base Armor Class." This sets your base AC based on armor and shield worn. Mage armor sets its own base AC. The clarification from WoTC (via Sage Advice) says that if you have more than one source to set a base AC, you have to pick only one. To us, this was the definitive rule. The rest is just supporting material.
- p145, PHB: The Armor table lists shields on it. To us, this classifies it as armor.
- p146, PHB: The "Donning and Doffing Armor" table includes shields. To us, this classifies it as armor.

 

[Dausuul]

- p144, PHB: "Armor Class (AC). Armor protects its wearer from attacks. The armor (and shield) you wear determines your base Armor Class." This sets your base AC based on armor and shield worn. Mage armor sets its own base AC. The clarification from WoTC (via Sage Advice) says that if you have more than one source to set a base AC, you have to pick only one.

Good catch! I'd still allow it at my table, but I agree that yours is the logical interpretation of the rules as written.