D&D General LORE QUESTION: Elder Elemental Evil Eye

[embee]

What is the relationship of Tharizdun, Gaunadaur, and Juiblex? Is there one?

I'm trying to come up with some kind of long-term overarching Big Bad and also want to bring in some eldritch horror stuff like aboleths and illithids. From some of my digging, I believe that Gaunadaur is tied to the Far Realm and that he (it?) may have usurped either Tharizdun or Juiblex or maybe both. Which leads me to think of maybe having them all be some kind of tripartite god with Tharzidun and Juiblex being aspects of Gaundadaur.

Like long-term, I'm thinking of having stones from the Vast Gate resurfacing in various places and then they'll be used to open a portal to the Far Realm (tracking down McGuffins being tried and true).

Am I completely off-track in my thinking? Does this work? Am I nuts for thinking this could work?

Answers are welcome.

(be gentle)

 

[Urriak Uruk]

There is indeed a link between Juiblix and Ghaunadaur... in the Forgotten Realms, Juiblix is sometimes considered an aspect or avatar of Ghaunadaur. Whether this is actually true is up to interpretation, but if they are separate entities, Ghaunadaur would be the more powerful, as it is a deity instead of just a demon lord like Juiblix.

Now, Tharizdun is certainly a deity independent of the above two, and is probably older than both (and probably more powerful than Ghaunadaur too). Tharizdun created the Abyss by plunging the Seed of Evil into the Elemental Chaos, and it is this first contact reaction of chaos and evil that spawned the infection that is Juiblix (making it the oldest of the Demon Lords).

Tharizdun of course makes the above far more confusing by often masquerading as other gods to achieve its goals (which are all variations of SET ME FREE). So one of Ghaunadaur's titles, the Elder Eye, is quite similar to one of Tharizdun's pseudonyms, the Elder Elemental Eye.

So if you want to make a tripartite faction, it is probably best to make Tharizdun the true big bad god behind the curtain, as of the three it is the most active in the material plane. Considering how good Tharizdun is at manipulating various cults that are completely unrelated to its own portfolio, it makes the most sense to manipulate worshippers of either Ghaunadaur or Juiblix.

I'll add, none of the three are actually that related to the Far Realm. There are some hints that Ghaunadaur was, but it is no longer. All three are much more closely tied to the Abyss, and various demons (and old demons, like Obyriths). If you really need something tied to the Far Realm, I would look at a different selection of gods.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Here is a good list of Elder Evils, that are extremely ancient deities and powerful beings, most of which have strong ties to the Far Realm. The most famous of these is Kyuss, the Worm that Walks. Other good Far Realm deities include the Great Mother (the god of Beholders) and Ilsensine (the god of Mind Flayers).

Elder Evils - 1d4chan

1d4chan.org

Pathfinder also has a good list of deities, including my favorite The King in Yellow (Hastur). Their adventure path Strange Aeons uses a lot of Far Realm-like stuff.

Strange Aeons - PathfinderWiki

pathfinderwiki.com

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'm going to guess the OP knows this, but it's worth noting that that particular Abyss origin is probably only valid in 4e lore (or as "one version of the story" in 5e's assumed semi-unreliable narrator presentation of the planes).

 

[Quartz]

I believe that Gaunadaur is tied to the Far Realm

You may be thinking of Ghatanothoa from the Cthulhu mythos.

 

[Hriston]

I seem to recall reading that EGG said he did not intend the EEE to be the same deity as Tharizdun. I believe, however, that the temple in the Caves of Chaos is meant to be a temple to the EEE, and that the EEE was intended to invoke Lovecraftian horror.

 

[embee]

You may be thinking of Ghatanothoa from the Cthulhu mythos.

From a post on Stack Exchange:

Finally, according to the 4e FR Campaign Guide (page 64):

The greater god Ghaunadaur is the mightiest of all entities that are thought to be touched by the Far Realm.

 

[Bohandas]

It's possible that Juiblex' use of the title may be an attempt to usurp it from Tharizdun. Juiblex and Tharizdun have reason to personally dislike each other due to Juiblex' hated enemy and rival Zuggtmoy being part of Tharizdun's Cult of Elemental Evil

 

[Flamestrike]

What is the relationship of Tharizdun, Gaunadaur, and Juiblex? Is there one?

I'm trying to come up with some kind of long-term overarching Big Bad and also want to bring in some eldritch horror stuff like aboleths and illithids. From some of my digging, I believe that Gaunadaur is tied to the Far Realm and that he (it?) may have usurped either Tharizdun or Juiblex or maybe both. Which leads me to think of maybe having them all be some kind of tripartite god with Tharzidun and Juiblex being aspects of Gaundadaur.

Like long-term, I'm thinking of having stones from the Vast Gate resurfacing in various places and then they'll be used to open a portal to the Far Realm (tracking down McGuffins being tried and true).

Am I completely off-track in my thinking? Does this work? Am I nuts for thinking this could work?

Answers are welcome.

(be gentle)

Tharizdun is older than the other Gods (including the slime gods) and imprisoned by them for his role in creating the Abyss.

He isnt in the Far Realm, or any other Inner or Outer Plane; he's literally imprisoned outside of all reality (think Morgoth once cast out by Eru and the Valar) in 'nothing'.

He uses intermediary Gods (in particular Jubliex/Gaunadaur and Zuggtomy) and created a proxy religion (the Elder Elemental Eye, and the Evil elementals) to funnel worship to him.

He seeks to undo all creation and reduce reality to... well nothing.

 

[aco175]

Is the goal to have the PCs fight this god/demon or just fight his proxies? I ask because if you just have a powerful being that worships the EEE, it will not matter. The PCs likely will not know or care who is pulling the strings. The elemental evil book by Wizards has mention of the EEE, but the PCs fight prophets of the god and only 1 element proxy. History can have all sorts of old myths and stories about who or what it is.

It also depends on the level of your game. If the game is only going to 10-12 level than you should never expect to actually fight the god. I kind of think that something this old and powerful will need a party of 20+ level PCs escorted with several groups of allies that can take on the gods minions.