Looking for opinions on Fabricate and Alchemy

[Delemental]

My wizard character is coming up on 9th level, and intends to take Fabricate as one of his two freebie spells. The spell itself is appopriate for the character, as he comes from a backgound as a builder and manual laborer.

This same character alse has a number of ranks in Craft (Alchemy), which I rarely get to use due to the time involved in making alchemical items (the character also has a few item creation feats, and so when he has the downtime to make stuff tends to go for magic items rather than alchemy).

Here's what I'm looking for opinions on. The spell states that it turns raw materials into finished goods, and that a Craft check is required for anything of high craftsmanship. I think alchemical items would fall into that category. What I'm interested in is knowing if you would allow this use of the spell, and if so what would be the practical limits you'd impose. The spell itself says it works on up to 10 cubic feet of raw material per caster level, or 1 cubic foot/level if you're working with a mineral. But even if I go with the smaller number, that's starting off with nine cubic feet of material; that's a lot of alchemist's fire, probably too much.

For those who will ask, I haven't yet talked to my DM about this, simply because I'm only 8th level and it's not a current issue. I'll still take the spell even if I can't use it with alchemy. I just want to get a sense of what others think of the idea; if I get an overwhelming "no way" then I might let the idea slide; otherwise, it would be good to be able to present some options to my DM. I just don't want those ranks in Craft (Alchemy) to go to waste, and I think that I and my other party members would make more frequent use of such things if they were easier to come by (the current attitude in my group is that alchemy is either too expensive to buy, or not worth the time needed to make).

 

[Thanee]

I'd probably - for simplicity's sake - reduce it to one item/level with one casting of the spell in this case, otherwise I see no problem in this use. It's meant to cut down the time needed to craft non-magical items, and that's exactly what it does here. The reasoning behind that surely involves, that non-magical items aren't of any huge use anymore in the levels you need to cast that spell.

I mean, Alchemist's Fire is all nice and well, but it doesn't really do much to a threat a 9th level character faces usually, tho it still could be when used in a creative way.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crosshair]

1)I would say no. Once again, talk to your DM. But the spell is meant(as far as I know) to turn raw materials, like it says into finished goods. Trees into houses, plants into rope. I don't think chemicals are very raw and usually you can't find them growing out behind your house(Yea well, some)

As you will note, my argument is a jumble of points.

2)I would have to say it's a very good idea. But without serious limitations, It'd turn munchkin with one casting. La La, I've 9 gallons of alchemists fire. 9 Gallons*128 fluid ounces(IIRC)=1152 ounces. 1,152 ounces=72 pints(which I believe is a flask, which would in turn be "an alchemists fire") Tell me if I'm wrong on the size of the dose of alchemists fire or any of that.

This is assuming 9 gallons, I will figure the actual out in one second...

3)Now... for the rest.

9 cubic foot = 8,617.5584416 ounce [US, liquid]
9 cubic foot = 538.5974026 pint [US, liquid]


4)If we knew the density of alchemists fire per cubic foot(wish I did know) we would be able to figure out the weight of it.

5)Creative way: Tie an alchemists fire to a tree(a tall one) and then put some acid on the rope tieing it to the tree. Repeat with a few more alchemists fire. Eventually you'll get an effective fire starter. The logic is that the Alchemists fire will have a delayed fall and hit the ground or a branch and start it on fire.

I would have to go with Thanee's suggestion

 

[AuraSeer]

I do allow fabricate to work for alchemical items. I figure anyone who has invested (or "wasted") points in a Craft skill deserves to get to use it, even if there's not much game time to spare.

The limiting factor is raw materials. You can't use fabricate to create alchemist's fire out of dead leaves and tree branches, or whatever random junk is around; you need the right ingredients. I require the crafter to either pay 50% of the item's cost to purchase raw materials, or pay 25% and spend a little downtime collecting the rest. (Either method becomes difficult for exceedingly large batches, like your one-third of a ton of alchemist's fire.)

 

[Thanee]

Ah yes, I meant to point that out as well... you need to buy the raw materials, of course.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Delemental]

I like the one item/level idea, Thanee. It seems reasonable. And of course I'd still have to pay for raw materials, so that in itself would limit how much I could make in one sitting. I'd assume the standard 50% cost. My main concern was time, not cost (when I realized that I could produce 4-6 potions in the time it took to make one alchemial item, well...)

And I think alchemical items have their place, even at higher levels. Maybe alchemist's fire loses its punch, but a plentiful supply of ghost oil (from Arms and Equipment Guide) will make any encounter with incorporeal foes a lot easier.

Crosshair, though I respect your opinion that it wouldn't work, I'd have to argue with your reasoning that alchemical raw materials aren't 'raw'. IMO, alchemy probably deals with things like powdered metals, roots and seeds, salts, etc. It's not like a character goes into Ye Olde Shoppe of Reagents and orders a quart of phenodihydrosilicophosphicylicate.

(Phenodihydrosilicophosphicylicate, by the way, is great on toast)

 

[Silveras]

As an aside, if the issue is finding the time to make items, you and your DM may want to check out Unearthed Arcana (the collected variant rules from WotC, not Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed).

One variant is "Craft Points", which gives characters pools of points to use on making magic items overnight. The idea being that the character started the item between adventures and, while on the road, the character was working a bit at a time on the item, then spends the last night finishing it off.

 

[Saeviomagy]

OH MY GOODNESS!

THE WORLD IS ENDING!

USING FABRICATE, PC'S CAN REDUCE THE PRICE OF NON MAGICAL ITEMS BY 66% WHEN THEY'RE 11TH LEVEL!!!


AAAAAAAAHHHH!

Really people. Craft skills suck even when you've got enough time to use them. Letting a spell use them quicker isn't really going to be a problem. At 11th level, non-magical gear is so inexpensive that your PC's may as well have an infinite supply of whatever they want. Making it even less expensive won't really change much.

Oh, and PCs whos GM screws them on this? Just buy raw diamonds and triple their value. Then use that money to buy more raw diamonds.

Etc etc.

Then just buy whatever it was that you were going to fabricate in the first place, plus a lot of other stuff. Point out to the DM that you tried to be nice.

 

[Starglim]

I'd say no. Fabricate makes raw material (say, an iron bar) into an item made from that material (say, a sword). Alchemy, almost by definition, changes one material into another by a series of alterations in its physical makeup.

I'd have no problem with a spell of the same or even lower level that made alchemical changes to raw materials, but fabricate is not that spell.

 

[Blacksmithking]

Since the spell description for Fabricate is vague, I ruled that Fabricate simply takes the place of workers with the appropriate Craft skill and their customary tools. For example, if 10 experts with Craft (stonemasonry) could turn a stone block into a fortress wall, then Fabricate can do it, too.

Now, since Craft skills can be used untrained, anyone that can cast Fabricate likely has +4 bonus or more to all Craft skills, even without buying actual ranks in the skill. A wizard could walk up to a stone quarry and make a Fortress of Solitude, or he could walk up to a wall of iron or a junkyard and start pounding out masterwork daggers.