D&D 5E "Locate Object" Abuse?

[jayoungr]

My party have the locate person and locate object spells available, and they make liberal use of them. Most recently, they defeated a lich and couldn't find anything that looked like his phylactery in his study. They wanted to cast locate object in order to find the nearest phylactery.

Now, I had already decided that the lich was smart enough to encase his phylactery in a lead box, which blocks the locate object spell. But it seems to me that the spell shouldn't have worked anyway, since they had no idea what form the phylactery took.

What do you think? Should that have worked, if the item hadn't been encased in lead, or is that stretching the spell too far?

 

[Warmaster Horus]

As a DM I would never allow Locate Object to search for a 'phylactry' as a 'not familiar with item' search. If they knew the specific kind of object the phylactry was and weren't familiar with it I'd allow them to use Locate Object to look for the nearest specific object of that type ('ivory statue' for example). The 1000' rule is good, too, as that vastly restricts the search area.

 

[iserith]

I would say that the spell does not work. You must have seen the object up close at least once. However, there is an exception: a particular kind of object can be found, but a phylactery isn't, I would say, a particular kind of object since it can be anything practically speaking.

Learning the what form the lich's phylactery takes is something canny adventurers might do long before confronting the lich. This might be accomplished through the Research downtime activity, additional quests, or perhaps certain divination spells.

 

[Wiseblood]

To locate a specific object you need to have seen it up close. Like a gold ring engraved with the image of a sword. I gave one to each party member each with a different symbol so I had short range gps for the party.

 

[jaelis]

Yeah I would agree that a phylactery isn't a "kind of object" it is more of a use an object is being put to.

Well to be more precise, a phylactery really is a kind of object: a small box containing mystical texts. But that isn't directly related to the game use of the word as a storage vessel for a lich's life force. If the lich's phylactery happened to be a box containing texts, then locate object would have worked fine. (Unless of course the lich had a variety of such boxes around, in which case finding the life-force one becomes less likely.)

But if the phylactery had a different form then you're out of luck.

 

[iserith]

Yeah I would agree that a phylactery isn't a "kind of object" it is more of a use an object is being put to.

Well to be more precise, a phylactery really is a kind of object: a small box containing mystical texts. But that isn't directly related to the game use of the word as a storage vessel for a lich's life force. If the lich's phylactery happened to be a box containing texts, then locate object would have worked fine. (Unless of course the lich had a variety of such boxes around, in which case finding the life-force one becomes less likely.)

But if the phylactery had a different form then you're out of luck.

Good call. The MM says it's "...traditionally an amulet in the shape of a small box, but it can take the form of any item possessing an interior space into which arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic are inscribed in silver." I didn't know it was even this specific in D&D 5e as I hadn't looked it up prior to my post, but this still leaves open a wide range of objects it could be.

 

[Charlaquin]

To locate a specific object you need to have seen it up close. Like a gold ring engraved with the image of a sword. I gave one to each party member each with a different symbol so I had short range gps for the party.

That’s a really good idea!

 

[jasper]

Larry the Lich says " I have long live the undead life. I place my soul into a the left one of an old hiking boot. It would work well if wasn't for the meddling Wesley kids!"

 

[Blue]

I would say that the spell does not work. You must have seen the object up close at least once. However, there is an exception: a particular kind of object can be found, but a phylactery isn't, I would say, a particular kind of object since it can be anything practically speaking.

Learning the what form the lich's phylactery takes is something canny adventurers might do long before confronting the lich. This might be accomplished through the Research downtime activity, additional quests, or perhaps certain divination spells.

I think I'm with you here, but I can see players argung the other way.

For example, using Location Object to find "a bottle of red wine" seems to be fine - it's an object of a particular kind. But how about "a container holding red wine"? Now it's a wide category more defined by what it's doing - does that still fit under "object of a particular kind"? I don't think it's particular, I think it's a broad class.

Would "a holy symbol" work for Locate Object? It's similar in that the representation need not be a particular kind of of object.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Try locating a "lead box" next time.