Light Source Underwater

[Infiniti2000]

Can a light source held above water (e.g. lantern) provide illumination below water? If so, how much?

Extra credit: Can sunrods function underwater?

 

[ValhallaGH]

Probably, yes. DM call.

Yes.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Lantern? I would say no, as it's just a simple flame inside of glass and metal...and it's not waterproof. Now a Sunrod? Probably...they seem to be the magical version of very powerful flare, and so I would imagine that they would work anywhere.

Also, if you're going to be doing some underwater fighting and such, and you have a Wizard, make use of his light cantrip.

(Note: I was assuming swimming through water...if you're talking some kind of magic bubble or something that allows you to breathe, then that's different and you'll need to check with the DM)

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, I am the DM so I'll need to check with me. There won't be any magical bubble or anything and it'll be "sewer water." The PCs may desire to (though no one will force them) swim underwater to a neighboring chamber (think Poseidon adventure). They'll have a light source so I'm wondering from a rules perspective what'll happen when they submerge the sunrod. Also, there'll likely be combat with waterborne creatures and I need to know how well the heroes can see them from above water when they hold the only light sources.

This will be in a sewer system, in several areas. This particular area, however, is a natural cavern adjoining one part of the sewers. I've looked in the DMG rules on aquatic combat and it's sparse, to say the least. I think it's too easy on the PCs (should be more penalties).

 

[ValhallaGH]

Well, I am the DM so I'll need to check with me.

That does tend to be the bother.

There won't be any magical bubble or anything and it'll be "sewer water." The PCs may desire to (though no one will force them) swim underwater to a neighboring chamber (think Poseidon adventure). They'll have a light source so I'm wondering from a rules perspective what'll happen when they submerge the sunrod.

Well, sunrods are kind of like magic road flares. So not only will they work when wet, but they shed light as bright as daylight (and is equivalent to daylight, which really messes up some monsters; magic is cool stuff). Unless you just want to be mean, and set a scary precedent that keeps people from going into water, there's no reason to "douse" the sunrod when immersed.

Also, there'll likely be combat with waterborne creatures and I need to know how well the heroes can see them from above water when they hold the only light sources.

I'd go with ordinary concealment within the first two squares of water, and total concealment for deeper than that.
For in water sources (sunrods), I'd say you can see clearly within Burst 2, Dimly within Burst 5, and essentially not at all beyond that. If you're above the water, and something is swimming past a submerged source, you can only see it within the Burst 2 radius (assuming you're within 20 squares of the sunrod), and it gets cover from the intervening water.

This will be in a sewer system, in several areas. This particular area, however, is a natural cavern adjoining one part of the sewers. I've looked in the DMG rules on aquatic combat and it's sparse, to say the least. I think it's too easy on the PCs (should be more penalties).

Well, you have to remember that 4E is trying to encourage stupidly-awesome heroics at all times; this leads to a minimum of penalties.
You can always Weaken ranged and non-stabbing melee attacks. Also, fire attacks. That's a solid penalty that makes it very desirable to draw the monsters out to the surface.

Good luck.

 

[Colmarr]

I'd keep it simple.

The sunrod works underwater, but the murky water provides concealment. 5 (or 4, 3, 2, etc) squares of murky water provide total concealment.

eg. PC and enemy are both in the water and are adjacent. Each has concealment.

eg. PC and enemy are both in the water and are 7 squares apart. Each has total concealment.

eg. PC is above water. Enemy is submersed, 6 squares away just beneath the surface. The enemy has concealment but the PC does not.

 

[Turtlejay]

If you are running this, you can build some of what you want into the monsters. Give them something like 'native swimmer' that gives them a swim speed and makes them concealed to anyone past x squares. If you think melee characters should have a penalty, then give them defenses that correspond: 'This creature has +3 to all defenses while fully submerged'.

Just make a simple template that does what you want, and apply it to all your creeps. No need to burden the PC's with more rules to remember.

Jay