Large creatures and jumping.

[RangerWickett]

Last session I wanted to jump my horse over a 20-ft. stretch of ground that was rough terrain, because I wanted to charge a foe on the other side. The DM ruled that I had to make a DC 25 Jump check for the horse, because the distance from the far square the horse occupies to the other side of the chasm was 25 ft. This is silly, right? The DC should not be higher simply because the creature is larger, right?

Consider the following diagrams.

Person = P
Horse = H
Enemy = E
Normal terrain = #
Difficult terrain = X

Running Person

######XXXX###
P#####XXXX##E
######XXXX###

Here the man obviously runs 25 ft, then jumps a 20 ft gap, then moves the rest of the way and attacks with a charge. Total movement is 11 squares.

Running Horse

######XXXX###
HH####XXXX###
HH####XXXX##E
######XXXX###

Here, the horse runs 20 ft to the edge, then jumps a 20 ft gap, then moves the rest of the way and its rider attacks after 10 squares of movement. However, if, as my DM did, you measure the jump distance from the horse's hind end just before it jumped, it's actually a 25-ft jump.

######XXXX###
####HHXXXX###
####HHXXXX##E
######XXXX###

 

[Stalker0]

Your DM is always right of course, but I think he's beeing a bit strict.

The RAW says the DC to jump a distance X is DC X. So the DC should be 20, that's what it takes for a creature to clear that distance imo. However, he's not in the wrong necessarily, as the creature does occupy a 10foot square, and getting that whole 10 foot square over the gap could be considered 25 feet.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I see two possibilities. I'm picturing a 20 foot chasm rather than a 20 patch of rough ground, for the imagery.

1. The horse clears 20 feet with his Jump check. This allows his forelegs to reach solid ground, but not his hind legs... like Indiana Jones at the start of Raiders of the Lost Ark. If the horse can grab a convenient root, he might be able to haul himself up with a decent Climb check. (Climb is Str-based, right? )

2. The horse clears 20 feet, and turns sideways in midair and uses the squeezing rules to occupy only the two squares that are on solid ground, then stops squeezing and continues travelling along the straight line of the charge. Despite changing the direction his head is facing, his direction of movement has never changed, so the charge should still be valid...

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

Doesn't moving INTO difficult terrain penalise your movement rate? As in you could land 5ft into the difficult terrain and maintain your normal movement (in this case, a charge). SRD is not clear enough for me to be certain though.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Doesn't moving INTO difficult terrain penalise your movement rate? As in you could land 5ft into the difficult terrain and maintain your normal movement (in this case, a charge). SRD is not clear enough for me to be certain though.

But wouldn't landing in the broken terrain square count as entering it, and cost ten feet of movement?

-Hyp.

 

[maggot]

I can see the DM's reasoning here. How would it work if you and the horse had to teleport through a 20' thick wall. Would you say that was 20' or 25'?

 

[domino]

The horse doesn't jump with all legs. Its animal cunning lets it set up the leap so its hind legs are near the edge, and its forelegs are actually over the open pit, thus, it only needs to make the same jump as the human.

 

[Legildur]

But wouldn't landing in the broken terrain square count as entering it, and cost ten feet of movement?

I don't know. Does it?

 

[ElectricDragon]

DC 25 Jump check should be easy for a light warhorse. 16 Strength = +3, Speed 60 = +12, +4 bonus for Run Feat = +19 with no ranks. If you use a Ride check DC15 to Spur your mount (move action), your horse would gain another +4 to the Jump check and take 1 hp damage for a total modifier of +23.

If, instead you have a heavy warhorse; 18 Strength = +4, Speed 50 = +8, +4 bonus for Run feat, +4 Spuring your mount = +20 with no ranks.

Medium or Heavy Barding can lower these numbers though. A heavy warhorse would get no Speed bonus and a light warhorse would only get +4. So +12 for a heavy and +15 for a light.

While leaping a mount you use your Ride modifier or the Horse's Jump modifier whichever is lower. Is this where the problem was?

Ciao
Dave