Jovian Chronicles (DP9) - any good?

nsruf

First Post
I am currently looking around for some new RPGs to try out (yes, even non-d20 !), especially with an SF background. So far, I haven't found any SF RPG that was really to my taste. But the DP9 series of RPGs (Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Core Command) caught my eye. Especially Jovian Chronicles, being supposedly "hard SF" (no supernatural powers, no black-box technology).

Since I can't find any active forums dedicated to these games, I ask here instead: is it worth picking up? The newest edition apparently requires getting both the Silhouette system core book plus one of the setting books, which is a major disincentive for an "impulse buy"...

I know the setting books also contain d20 stats, but from the reviews at rpg.net I gather they are rather incomplete. Any experience with that?

And if you know any other good SF RPG, maybe you can recommend it? It should allow for a spacefaring/exploration type of game, contain little or no supernatural powers, and be relatively light on the rules. So I might pick up GURPS Transhuman Space for setting, but definitely not for use with the GURPS system. Oh, and I know Fading Suns (both 2nd edition and d20) and didn't like it much.

Any insights would be welcome.
 

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Although I don't have specific experience with Jovian Chronicles, I'm a big fan of the Silhouette system. Quick and simple, yet feels very comprehensive in play. If you don't feel a need for a premade setting, you'll only need the SilCore rulebook.

The default setup is fairly gritty, but it's easily modified to a much more heroic, or an even grittier level.

The one quasi-drawback with the system, IMO, is its graininess, which means some fine detail can't be modelled (a +1 modifier is significant). Whether or not this is an issue will depend on personal taste; personally I consider it a small but necessary compromise within the grand scheme of the system.

Traveller (any edition), sans Psionics, would certainly meet your setting requirements, I don't know that the rules would. I've actually been running a Traveller: the New Era game using Silhouette rules of late.
 

Centauri Knights from Guardians of Order is another good one.
Anime Hard SF.
The only "super tech" is Nanotech and it is a hard SF type of nanotech. :D
d20 book or tri-stat book
 

SableWyvern said:
Although I don't have specific experience with Jovian Chronicles, I'm a big fan of the Silhouette system. Quick and simple, yet feels very comprehensive in play.

IIRC from the reviews, the new edition of the rules uses two ratings for each skill - level and complexity. And some reviewers found this unnecessarily complicated. What's the deal?

If you don't feel a need for a premade setting, you'll only need the SilCore rulebook.

So there are rules for SF equipment, vehicles, and starship combat included?

The default setup is fairly gritty, but it's easily modified to a much more heroic, or an even grittier level.

Sounds good.

The one quasi-drawback with the system, IMO, is its graininess, which means some fine detail can't be modelled (a +1 modifier is significant). Whether or not this is an issue will depend on personal taste; personally I consider it a small but necessary compromise within the grand scheme of the system.

I don't mind a fairly granular system. To be honest, the "+1 from this and -2 from that" of d20 combat is beginning to annoy me.

Traveller (any edition), sans Psionics, would certainly meet your setting requirements, I don't know that the rules would. I've actually been running a Traveller: the New Era game using Silhouette rules of late.

BTW, is Traveller as an independent system (no GURPS or d20) still being supported?
 

Tom Cowan said:
Centauri Knights from Guardians of Order is another good one.
Anime Hard SF.
The only "super tech" is Nanotech and it is a hard SF type of nanotech. :D
d20 book or tri-stat book

Which do you recommend? Is the d20 adaption good, or is their "home system" tri-stat/BESM just better? I've never played any incarnation of the latter.
 

IIRC from the reviews, the new edition of the rules uses two ratings for each skill - level and complexity. And some reviewers found this unnecessarily complicated. What's the deal?

Yeah, there's a lot of controversy over this. There are aspects of the complexity system I don't like (in it's broadest uses, it simply amounts to a completely redundant modifier). I made a few changes to how it operates on this level, and am happy with the result.

The more abstract uses of complexity can add a lot to the game. The default rules include a small range of ways in which complexity is used more abstractly -- you can either ignore this, use it as written, or expand on it, as you see fit.

If you simply find the complexity rules silly overall, it's no hassle to remove them completely. If you decided to pick up the system, I'd be happy to go into more detail regarding my take on the issue.



So there are rules for SF equipment, vehicles, and starship combat included?

There are rules for building your own equipment (with significant improvements to these rules in the latest edition). I also believe the newest version has a basic equipment list. Equipment books for all DP9 settings are also available seperately.

Also, I have a large list of personal scale T:tNE equipment statted for SilCore that I would be happy to pass on should it be of use.

Starship, air, personal and large-scale ground combat is covered (all using slight variations on the same system).


BTW, is Traveller as an independent system (no GURPS or d20) still being supported?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if T4 is still around. T:tNE and Megatraveller are no more. There is a company currently printing all the old Classic Traveller stuff in compendiums; I don't recall off-hand who that is.

There is also a lot of good-quality, fan-based support, for all versions, to be found on the net. In fact, the Traveller community is more active than that of a lot of game systems still in print.
 

I bought a bunch of the Silhouette system stuff for Jovian...and then d20 came out. The setting is VERY cool. I would suggest going with it if your looking for a Scif-fi sorta game. I only got to run two sessions of it. Dream Pod 9 does have a d20 book out with many of the mechs in it. If your not looking to go with a new system that might be the way to go.
 

I have yet to convince anybody to play Jovian Chronicles, but the system (and that setting in particular) has always seemed very attractive to me.

At the most basic mechanics level, the system is based around "tests" against a threshold. When rolling dice in a test, you take whatever number of dice (generally your skill or attribute rating), all d6s. You take the highest value of all the dice. If more than one 6 comes up, add one to the total. So 2, 3, 2 = 3; 1, 5, 4 = 5; 2, 6, 3 = 6; 2, 6, 6 = 7; 3, 6, 6, 6 = 8; and so on. If *all* dice come up as 1, you've fumbled. What this basically means is that thresholds of greater than 6 are pretty difficult to beat, and the higher your rating the less chance you'll fumble.

In addition to this, situational modifiers can add directly to the die roll. So you might have a +2, in which case you take the roll as above and add 2.

Untrained tests, you roll two dice and take the *lower* of the two rolls. So 2, 3 = 2; and 1, 6 is a fumble.

Complexity in skills is actually pretty interesting, I think. It lets you model two somewhat independent ways of "knowing" a skill. A character with a high skill rating in a low complexity doesn't have much breadth of knowledge, but is very experienced. (Many dice means few fumbles, higher averages in general.) A character with a low skill rating and a high complexity has a large amount of knowledge, but little practical experience. (Less dice means more fumbles.) The mechanical way it factors in is that a skill test can have both a threshold and a complexity. The difference between the character's skill compelxity and the test's complexity acts as a modifier. So a player with 4/2 (a level of 4 with complexity 2) who attempts a 6/1 task needs to beat a threshold of 6 with 4 dice, and has a +1. A player with 2/4 needs to beat a threshold of 6 with 2 dice, but has a +3. Likewise, if the complexity of the skill were higher, the lower complexity character would have a penalty to the test result, while the higher might still have a bonus. It's sort of your basic accuracy vs. precision trade-off.

Each complexity level costs a bit more than the same skill level, but they can add together nicely. 4/1 costs 16 points, 3/3 costs 18 points, and 2/3 and 3/2 each cost 13 points.


Finally, a little bit more about how this mechanic extends:

DP9 stole the ideas of "taking 10" and "taking 20" for the latest edition, using the names "taking average" and "taking high". Taking average allows you to take 2 + skill level when not being hurried or threatened. Taking high allows you to take 4 + skill level by spending 20 times as long as long as a fumble won't cause bad things to happen. Really, the +2 and +4 and 20 times as long isn't quite right statistically, but they're nice round numbers.

Combat is generally done using opposed tests--your attack skill against the opponent's defense skill. The degree of success (how much you beat the defense roll by) is multiplied by the weapon's damage multiplier to find out how much damage you do--and that's then compared to the target's wound thresholds--if it's less than a flesh wound, it's not counted. Between flesh wound and deep wound, it turns into a flesh wound (-1 penalty for each, cannot sprint or run, but can jog.) Between deep wound and instant death, it turns into a deep wound (-2 penalty for each, one deep wound means you can only walk slowly, more than one you can only crawl). Past instant death, well, it's pretty obvious. In addition, every wound you take can knock you out--you have to succeed in a Health (attribute) test (including the above modifiers) against threshold 1.

So getting hit at all in Silhouette is bad news--combat is much more deadly, I think.

The one piece I find a bit overly complicated is the stat system. There are ten primary attributes and five secondary attributes which are derived from the primary attributes using formulas. (Like Strength is the average of Build and Fitness, Health is the average of Fitness, Psyche, and Willpower, Stamina is 5 x (Build + Health) + 25.) This seems needlessly complex, but only really has to be calculated once, I suppose.

Vehicle combat is very well done, which should be no surprise--DP9 also has some very nice tactical war games based on the same rules. The rules are fairly straightforward extensions of the same principles as described above.


Hope this info has been somewhat useful. :) I occasionally wish I could convince friends to give a Silhouette based game a shot, if only because it would be fun to use something besides d20 rolls once in a while. :D
 

Oh, and yes: the 2nd Edition Jovian Chronicles book has d20 stuff in it--but it's very very minimal. There are:

1) At the start of chapter four there are stat mods for Low Gravity and Zero Gravity types. (+2 Dex, -2 Con and +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -4 Con, respectively.)

2) Rules for d20 variants of the optional "anime power" rules for each character stereotype.

3) A level 2 stat block for each character archetype. (i.e. "The Pilot" as "Fast Hero 2".) These are basically quick starter characters for people who don't want to go through the full character creation process.

4) At the end of the Weapons & Equipment chapter, they list the d20 details of all (I believe) of the items listed. It's worth noting that while d20 Modern seems to be assumed for character classes in the above, there's no effort made to come up with purchase DCs. That wouldn't be too hard to do based on prices, though. Hmm. On second glance, not everything is represented, though. For example, I can't find d20 versions of the "communication technology" equipment list.

5) d20 stats are listed for each of the mecha in the last section of the book (this is a lot of stuff, actually.) These stats are likely to be confusing unless you take a look at Guardians of Order's d20 Mecha rules (which, fortunately, are available as an SRD here: http://www.guardiansorder.com/games/d20/srd/#mecha). DP9's d20 Mecha Compendium may or may not also be useful.

Anyway, that's pretty much it. I'd say it's probably a good idea to wait for d20 Future before putting the d20 stuff in this book into use, if only to fill in the gaps. The support isn't abyssmal, really--it's just that if the information is available anywhere else (or they think it might be) for d20, they've left it out, whereas the Silhouette stuff they're a little more forgiving on. Still, the heart of the book is the setting, with crunchy rules mostly left to the Silhouette core.
 

Jovian Chronicles is indeed a very good setting - it has a fully colonized solar system on the brink of war, and is quite realistic (apart from the mecha and the fast travelling times). Definietly worth picking it up.

But since you mentioned Transhuman Space, I'll pitch in for it, too - and not just because I wrote for it. ;)

Most SF RPG setting have futuristic technology - after all, that's what SF is all about. And many keep the technology realistic - which means they don't violate the laws of physics as we know them.

But what makes Transhuman Space almost unique is that it doesn't only have futuristic technology, but also examines how they will impact and change society. In other settings there's often a couple of silly reasons (or no explanation at all) why society still looks similar to society at the end of the 20th century (or worse, the 1950s). Not here.

Human cloning? It ceased to be controversial many decades ago, along with same-sex offspring and removing genetic defects from the DNA of one's children. Now the big controversity is about how much you should change your children from the human norm...

Artificial Intelligences? No, the machines don't rule the world (yet) - almost every person ownes an AI as his/her/hir personal secretary, allowing the 20 hours of work the average working member of the wealthy nations puts in each week to be relatively stress-free... There are quite a few sapient artificial intelligences as well, and some places (such as the European Union) even recognize them as citizens!

And that's just the tip of the iceberg - Transhuman Space recognizes the full range of human perversity. There's always someone out there willing to try anything, and with modern memetic engineering it's easy to find some willing helpers, too...

Other things to like:

- It's not US-centric (a big selling point for an European like me) - the USA are only the third most powerful power block in the solar system, after the European Union (wealthiest and most technologically advanced) and China (most powerful military).

- The vast range of playable PC species (and other entities that are no longer "alive" in the biological sense - or who were never alive in the first place) despite not having any alien life forms other than a few microbes on the Jovian moon Europa.
 

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