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<blockquote data-quote="Aaron L" data-source="post: 7886200" data-attributes="member: 926"><p>Considering the similarities between the <em>Hand </em>and <em>Eye of Vecna</em> and the<em> Hand of Kwll</em> and <em>Eye of Rhynn</em>, I am quite certain that were fully intended as an homage to the Corum stories. It would just be far too much of a coincidence to be otherwise, and Gygax was quite free with his borrowings, adaptations, and homages to various magic items from the stories he listed in Appendix N. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>Actually, I am quite certain that this was one of the reasons why Gygax included Appendix N in the first place, so that AD&D players could go back and the read the original inspirations for the various magic items, so as to better understand the original circumstances and context from which the items originated. I actually think that is an extremely important element of RPG gaming that is usually just absent today: for players to go back to read and understand the original sources and context of many D&Disms, which for <em>far too many</em> D&D players today are nothing more than game elements divorced from any connection to earlier stories and/or real world mythologies. I've written before about how <em><strong>way </strong></em>too many D&D players today don't have any understanding of the origins of most D&Disms and game concepts, such as how the concept of Bardic Colleges and Schools of Magic are completely misunderstood by a great many of today's D&D players (and even by a lot of today's <em>D&D <strong>writers</strong>!</em>) as being actual physical learning institutions, because of the confusion between the modern use of the words School and College as institutions of learning, and the actually intended classical use of the words as <em>collection, association,</em> and <em>grouping</em>. College, as its use in the term <em>Bardic College</em>, has nothing to do with the modern colloquial use of the word College to mean an institute of higher learning (a term that is actually misused and misunderstood by a lot of people) but rather actually means an association of like-minded people (as in a group of <em>colleagues</em>.) And the word school in <em>School of Magic</em> also does not mean a place of learning, but instead means a collection of similar spells, as in a <em>school of fish</em>. A <em>School of Thought</em> isn't a place where students go to learn how to think, it's a particular way of thinking shared by a group of like-minded people. The term <em>old school</em> doesn't mean an old building used to teach students, it means an older, more traditional paradigm of thought. A <em>Bardic College</em> isn't an institution of learning where Bards go to study the skills of their profession, a <em>Bardic College</em> is an association of like-minded professional Bardic colleagues who share a similar mindset and approach to the Bardic arts (an association which <em>could</em> establish their own academy to teach their own Bardic tradition.) This lack of familiarity with the source material, and the resulting lack of basic understanding behind the original intended meaning of many of the terms, phrases, and concepts used in the game, leaves too many D&D players today with a completely distorted view of what these terms and concepts even mean on a fundamental level. </p><p></p><p>It would be like if D&D players had no idea that the Cleric class was derived from religious knights like the Knights Templar, but instead thought the term <em>Cleric</em> was derived from <em>clerical work(!)</em> and that the Cleric class was all about accountants and book-keepers! (The terms actually <em>do</em> share origins, as medieval <em>Clerics</em> were some of the only literate people around and so did a lot of record-keeping and clerical work, but the current separate meanings diverged centuries ago.) Or if players thought that casting a magic <em>Spell</em> meant literally spelling out the words! These kinds of misunderstandings may seem ridiculous to some, but are they really any more ridiculous than the widespread misunderstanding of two different terms that actually mean <em>a collection of colleagues</em> and <em>a grouping of similar things</em> to instead both mean <em>an institution of learning</em>? I certainly don't think so. (And seriously, the fact that <em>actual authors of D&D books</em> had such a fundamental lack of understanding of the term <em>Bardic College</em> (or just <em>College </em>in and of itself) so badly that they thought it meant "a place where Bards go to school" is really pretty awful.) Just look up the original Roman use of "school" and "college" and you'll find everything from scholarly associations to warrior societies, and other really interesting things.</p><p></p><p>But to get back on track; considering the way that Artifacts were presented in 1st Edition AD&D with the powers of each Artifact being determined separately for each campaign <em>via</em> the Dungeon Master choosing a selection of powers for each Artifact from Tables I-VI, the DM could have actually shaped his <em>Hand</em> and <em>Eye of Vecna</em> to somewhat closely emulate the abilities of the original <em>Hand of Kwll</em> and <em>Eye of Rhynn</em> by choosing such abilities from the Table V: Prime Powers as <em>Cacodemon</em>; <em>Gate</em>; <em>Summon 1 of Each Type of Elemental; Summon Djinn or Efreet Lord</em>; and/or <em>Monster Summoning VIII.</em> This would have allowed that campaign's version of the Eye of Vecna to see deep into the Planes of Existence, and the corresponding Hand to reach through and pull in a selected creature to serve the holder of the Artifacts. That would have been a pretty cool ability for the <em>Hand </em>and <em>Eye</em>, and a nice homage to the original story versions of the items <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aaron L, post: 7886200, member: 926"] Considering the similarities between the [I]Hand [/I]and [I]Eye of Vecna[/I] and the[I] Hand of Kwll[/I] and [I]Eye of Rhynn[/I], I am quite certain that were fully intended as an homage to the Corum stories. It would just be far too much of a coincidence to be otherwise, and Gygax was quite free with his borrowings, adaptations, and homages to various magic items from the stories he listed in Appendix N. :) Actually, I am quite certain that this was one of the reasons why Gygax included Appendix N in the first place, so that AD&D players could go back and the read the original inspirations for the various magic items, so as to better understand the original circumstances and context from which the items originated. I actually think that is an extremely important element of RPG gaming that is usually just absent today: for players to go back to read and understand the original sources and context of many D&Disms, which for [I]far too many[/I] D&D players today are nothing more than game elements divorced from any connection to earlier stories and/or real world mythologies. I've written before about how [I][B]way [/B][/I]too many D&D players today don't have any understanding of the origins of most D&Disms and game concepts, such as how the concept of Bardic Colleges and Schools of Magic are completely misunderstood by a great many of today's D&D players (and even by a lot of today's [I]D&D [B]writers[/B]![/I]) as being actual physical learning institutions, because of the confusion between the modern use of the words School and College as institutions of learning, and the actually intended classical use of the words as [I]collection, association,[/I] and [I]grouping[/I]. College, as its use in the term [I]Bardic College[/I], has nothing to do with the modern colloquial use of the word College to mean an institute of higher learning (a term that is actually misused and misunderstood by a lot of people) but rather actually means an association of like-minded people (as in a group of [I]colleagues[/I].) And the word school in [I]School of Magic[/I] also does not mean a place of learning, but instead means a collection of similar spells, as in a [I]school of fish[/I]. A [I]School of Thought[/I] isn't a place where students go to learn how to think, it's a particular way of thinking shared by a group of like-minded people. The term [I]old school[/I] doesn't mean an old building used to teach students, it means an older, more traditional paradigm of thought. A [I]Bardic College[/I] isn't an institution of learning where Bards go to study the skills of their profession, a [I]Bardic College[/I] is an association of like-minded professional Bardic colleagues who share a similar mindset and approach to the Bardic arts (an association which [I]could[/I] establish their own academy to teach their own Bardic tradition.) This lack of familiarity with the source material, and the resulting lack of basic understanding behind the original intended meaning of many of the terms, phrases, and concepts used in the game, leaves too many D&D players today with a completely distorted view of what these terms and concepts even mean on a fundamental level. It would be like if D&D players had no idea that the Cleric class was derived from religious knights like the Knights Templar, but instead thought the term [I]Cleric[/I] was derived from [I]clerical work(!)[/I] and that the Cleric class was all about accountants and book-keepers! (The terms actually [I]do[/I] share origins, as medieval [I]Clerics[/I] were some of the only literate people around and so did a lot of record-keeping and clerical work, but the current separate meanings diverged centuries ago.) Or if players thought that casting a magic [I]Spell[/I] meant literally spelling out the words! These kinds of misunderstandings may seem ridiculous to some, but are they really any more ridiculous than the widespread misunderstanding of two different terms that actually mean[B] [/B][I]a collection of colleagues[/I] and [I]a grouping of similar things[/I] to instead both mean [I]an institution of learning[/I]? I certainly don't think so. (And seriously, the fact that [I]actual authors of D&D books[/I] had such a fundamental lack of understanding of the term [I]Bardic College[/I] (or just [I]College [/I]in and of itself) so badly that they thought it meant "a place where Bards go to school" is really pretty awful.) Just look up the original Roman use of "school" and "college" and you'll find everything from scholarly associations to warrior societies, and other really interesting things. But to get back on track; considering the way that Artifacts were presented in 1st Edition AD&D with the powers of each Artifact being determined separately for each campaign [I]via[/I] the Dungeon Master choosing a selection of powers for each Artifact from Tables I-VI, the DM could have actually shaped his [I]Hand[/I] and [I]Eye of Vecna[/I] to somewhat closely emulate the abilities of the original [I]Hand of Kwll[/I] and [I]Eye of Rhynn[/I] by choosing such abilities from the Table V: Prime Powers as [I]Cacodemon[/I]; [I]Gate[/I]; [I]Summon 1 of Each Type of Elemental; Summon Djinn or Efreet Lord[/I]; and/or [I]Monster Summoning VIII.[/I] This would have allowed that campaign's version of the Eye of Vecna to see deep into the Planes of Existence, and the corresponding Hand to reach through and pull in a selected creature to serve the holder of the Artifacts. That would have been a pretty cool ability for the [I]Hand [/I]and [I]Eye[/I], and a nice homage to the original story versions of the items :) [/QUOTE]
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