D&D 5E Issues with Legendary Reactions vs Legendary Actions

[Quickleaf]

Since the monster changes we saw about a year ago, I've noticed that Legendary Reactions (i.e. 3 reactions per round) pose a specific additional vulnerability to monsters more so than Legendary Actions.

Monsters with Legendary Actions are especially susceptible to being being Incapacitated – cannot take actions or reactions – and its dependent conditions Petrified, Paralyzed, Stunned), which also prevent its use of Legendary Actions.

However, on top of this susceptibility, Legendary Reactions are also prone to spells/effects specifically preventing reactions – e.g. Arms of Hadar, Confusion, Shocking Grasp (changed in 2024 to only deny opportunity attacks not all reactions - powers forbid your 2014 caster with shocking grasp face a 2023/2024 monster with legendary reactions!), Slow, Staggering Smite, Tasha's Mind Whip. I'm not sure if in 2024 there are changes to these spell or if there are martial equivalents, but AFAICT these are glaring susceptibilities shutting down Legendary Reactions.

In using existing monsters with Legendary Reactions (or designing my own), I'm thinking about including language such as:

“Anything that would deny the monster the ability to take reactions instead reduces the number of reactions available to it that round by one.”

Would something like this be a good universal change? It's wordy and it's too broad (catching Incapacitated family of conditions), but I'm not sure how to finesse the language?

 

[marimbaguy715]

Since the monster changes we saw about a year ago, I've noticed that Legendary Reactions (i.e. 3 reactions per round) pose a specific additional vulnerability to monsters more so than Legendary Actions.

Monsters with Legendary Actions are especially susceptible to being being Incapacitated – cannot take actions or reactions – and its dependent conditions Petrified, Paralyzed, Stunned), which also prevent its use of Legendary Actions.

However, on top of this susceptibility, Legendary Reactions are also prone to spells/effects specifically preventing reactions – e.g. Arms of Hadar, Confusion, Shocking Grasp (changed in 2024 to only deny opportunity attacks not all reactions - powers forbid your 2014 caster with shocking grasp face a 2023/2024 monster with legendary reactions!), Slow, Staggering Smite, Tasha's Mind Whip. I'm not sure if in 2024 there are changes to these spell or if there are martial equivalents, but AFAICT these are glaring susceptibilities shutting down Legendary Reactions.

In using existing monsters with Legendary Reactions (or designing my own), I'm thinking about including language such as:

“Anything that would deny the monster the ability to take reactions instead reduces the number of reactions available to it that round by one.”

Would something like this be a good universal change? It's wordy and it's too broad (catching Incapacitated family of conditions), but I'm not sure how to finesse the language?

Every spell you mentioned (besides Shocking Grasp, which was changed) costs a spell slot and requires the monster to fail a Saving Throw for their reactions to be taken away. Legendary Monsters often have excellent saving throw modifiers and Legendary Resistances if they really don't want to lose their Reactions. But I also don't think it's that big of a deal for a monster to lose access to its Legendary Reactions for a short time when a player spends resources to achieve this. I may be wrong, but I'm at least going to play with it as written for a while and give it a chance.

 

[Weiley31]

Be crazy like me and have BOTH Legendary Actions AND Legendary Reactions on certain monsters.

 

[RoughCoronet0]

Be crazy like me and have BOTH Legendary Actions AND Legendary Reactions on certain monsters.

That’s my plan.

 

[cbwjm]

I think that's a good change, perhaps mention it to your group if they're playing something that locks down reactions.

 

[Shardstone]

I do a Cataclysmic Action, which is just one legendary action, plus multiple reactions now. Solves the issue for me.

 

[cbwjm]

I do a Cataclysmic Action, which is just one legendary action, plus multiple reactions now. Solves the issue for me.

Is the cataclysmic action exactly like a legendary action or is it something that can't be stopped? It sounds like it shouldn't be able to be stopped.

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, this is an obvious but apparently unanticipated consequence of changing legendary monsters from LAs to reactions. I complained about it during the playtest, but apparently to no avail. I don't see how LAs are difficult to understand or any harder to handle than extra reactions, and I don't see how moving to extra reactions improves the game. I do think it's a fine mechanic some of the time, but it's not inherently better than legendary actions.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, this is an obvious but apparently unanticipated consequence of changing legendary monsters from LAs to reactions. I complained about it during the playtest, but apparently to no avail. I don't see how LAs are difficult to understand or any harder to handle than extra reactions, and I don't see how moving to extra reactions improves the game. I do think it's a fine mechanic some of the time, but it's not inherently better than legendary actions.

I don’t think it was unanticipated, it was just considered an acceptable consequence of the change.

 

[Stalker0]

Just confirming, we are sure those conditions still remove reactions? I know a few spells that used to remove reactions no longer do so, so juuuuuust making sure.