D&D 5E Is the rapier "necessary"?

[Ancalagon]

So.

Background: I'm learning the new (to me) D&D rules and working on a vaguely South-Asian setting (Yoon-Suin, *highly* recommended).

Some of the weapons in such a setting are going to be unchanged - a spear is a spear, and so is an axe. Other weapons are new but are replacements of sort for existing weapons. A small kriss is a dagger, a large one a short sword, a firangi a longsword. Some weapons don't really exist in "standard" D&D and I'll have to stat them out like the Urumi. So far so good right?

What I have realized however is I don't have a rapier. And by rapier I don't mean "long thin stabbing sword". I mean "one handed finesse-able weapon that does 1d8 dmg". As a result, a character wanting to fight with a one-handed weapon would be limited to 1d6 dmg weapons.

Now my first instinct here is "this isn't a problem, high dex characters have it too good with dex being so useful all around anyway". But... well I haven't played the game yet, and most (I hope haha) of you have. Would "forcing" dex-based characters to use smaller weapons be a big issue? Or is it a small nerf that might well be needed (seeing how good dex is).

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

The difference is insignificant.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

No component of the game is "necessary", but there's no balance reason to remove the rapier, either. Dex is nice, of course, but a Dex-based rapier fighter is probably going to lose a fight to a Str-based greatsword fighter, especially once full plate becomes available.

I don't know South Asian weapons that well, but I don't think the notion of a light full-length sword is all that unique to Europe. In my kung fu setting, I use rapier stats for the jian.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

In my opinion, it is highly fortuitous--to the point of almost being "necessary."

The rapier allows classes that, traditionally, could not use Dex as their core stat (Fighters, Paladins) to do so and, more or less, keep up with those who wear heavy armor. Given that Asian cultures generally accept the idea that grace, agility, and mastery can be a defense in their own right, it seems appropriate (to me) to include a weapon that allows for such use. Doing a quick Wiki-dive on the subject, it seems that you could base it on the pinutí (a short-ish sword made with a very light wood handle), parang or pedang, or a dha-shay.

 

[pukunui]

The difference is insignificant.

Yeah. We're talking, on average, a difference of 1 point of damage.

 

[Bruce Vistani]

Frankly the rapier never should have been made a D8 weapon. The D6 scimitar (or talwar in south asia) is a more lethal and effective weapon and should probably be bumped up to D8 and dump the rapier all-together.

IRL the rapier required many hours of practice to use effectively. It was impressive to watch in a duel, but hopeless in a skirmish which is why it was the weapon of the civilian aristocracy. To land a deadly blow you either needed to get the blade between your opponent's rib cage or into his armpit. No easy feat!

The Urami whilst a very different kind of weapon, is probably the closest south asian analog: a graceful martial weapon requiring great deal of skill, its artful and effective in duels but mostly useless in warfare. Neither weapon is very effective against an armored opponent. (The urami is quite good for driving away predators though and I suspect that was its original intent).

Since you are going off book and inventing your own weapon list anyway, I'd advocate making the scimitar D8 and rapier D6, but give the rapier x3 or x4 critical. Or roll again every time you roll a 6 for damage.

 

[jaelis]

You can live without it. That would make the TWF feat a bit less desirable though, you might want to modify it. And make sure there is a 1d8 non-versatile weapon for halflings.

 

[Arial Black]

The Chinese jian has evolved many variations over the centuries, but it was always thought of as a weapon which required skill and finesse over brute force. You could easily fluff a jian as either a short sword or a rapier, depending on the length of that particular jian.

Taking away an option from the players is not the way forward. Just because you can't think of a good reason for a rapier-equivalent weapon, doesn't mean that they can't!

 

[ExploderWizard]

And make sure there is a 1d8 non-versatile weapon for halflings.

Why?

 

[jaelis]

Why?

Because I was confused and remembering the playtest rule that small creatures needed two hands to wield a versatile weapon