Is the concept of "planes of existence" taken from physics? Religion? Elsewhere?

Sebastian Francis

First Post
I'm curious about the concept of different "planes of existence", the material, astral, ethereal, etc. Where exactly does this concept come from?

Is it taken from physics? Is it a religious belief? Is it from mythology? Did D&D simply invent it?

If you mention "planes of existence" to a scientist, will he know what you're talking about?
 

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Sebastian Francis said:
I'm curious about the concept of different "planes of existence", the material, astral, ethereal, etc. Where exactly does this concept come from?

Is it taken from physics? Is it a religious belief? Is it from mythology? Did D&D simply invent it?

There's a bit of a lot of things in there.

For instance, it's pretty obvious that the Christian concepts of Heaven and Hell (the Upper and Lower Planes, respectively) form a pretty solid basis for D&D planar theory.

The ancient Greeks - and, perhaps, others (Hebrews as well, I believe) - believed the Earth to be at the center of a great sphere, on which the Sun, the other stars, the planets, and all the other heavenly bodies were variously painted or affixed. The idea later mutated to include multiple shells, each independent of the other. This may have been the inspiration for the crystal spheres floating in the Astral plane, of Spelljamming fame.

If you mention "planes of existence" to a scientist, will he know what you're talking about?

Probably. Most scientists are also Geeks, and D&D is pretty popular among geeks. :D
 

I don't know for certain, but my educated guess would be that our current notion of "planes" is a combination of two things: One, altered states of consciousness - dreaming, drug induced states, etc. - can seem very real but obviously don't take place here. Other planes explain where they might. And two, many religions had afterworlds and other places that, to begin with, were supposed to literally exist in the sky and underground - Heaven and Hell, Hades and Olympus, etc. As the adherents of these religions have learned more of the science of the world around them, the descriptions of these places (or, from a religious point of view, our understanding of them) has had to evolve, continually "moving" them to someplace we have less data about.

Eventually, a combination of these two things has led to most "other realms" having "moved" to the places of dreams, so to speak - the workings of the human mind and the most essential workings of the universe being two areas where our scientific knowledge is still grey enough for them to possibly be at.

Note to anyone I may offend: First, realize I meant no offense. Second, realize this was a difficult question to address without religious commentary, and was yet possibly a good one as regards insight into roleplay design. And finally, I'd like to point out that I didn't say that those places don't exist, so much as that we still haven't managed to nail them down, scientifically, and maybe never will....
 

Like many things in D&D or gaming in general, the answer is 'all of the above'. No, most scientists, unless they are also genre readers or gamers, won't know what that means save perhaps in a general sense. They might use the term 'dimension' but that's not right, either, since 'dimensions' are not 'other worlds'. 'Parallel Universe' might be closest.

Most religions have the concept of 'some place that isn't this one, that is normally imperceptable to human senses but occassionally people can go there and sometimes come back again'. That'd probably be the basis for the entire idea of 'other planes'.

Right off the top of my head, the first place I can think of that refers to 'planes' is Theosophical writings (which itself is a kind of bizarre marriage of religious and scientific ideas), though that probably pulls in things from previous occult traditions (since most occult traditions cross-pollinate). Most occult thinking of that time refers to an 'astral plane', which Theosophy seems to have invented - the dictionary refers to 'astral' as

1. Of, relating to, emanating from, or resembling the stars.
2. Biology Of, relating to, or shaped like the mitotic aster; star-shaped.
3. Of or relating to a supersensible body believed by theosophists to coexist with and survive the death of the human physical body

Ethereal, among it's other definitions, has - a. Of the celestial spheres; heavenly. b. Not of this world; spiritual.

Ether, if I remember right, comes from Huygens, a Dutch philosopher who put forth the idea of an all-pervading medium which would explain why heat and light could travel in a vacuum.

D&D takes those ideas and blends them all together. In most occult circles, 'astral' and 'ethereal' are used interchangably; the astral body can also be referred to as the 'ethric body'. The 'silver cord' idea in the Astral Plane is taken directly from Theosophical teachings (or, probably more accurately, popular fiction using Theosophical ideas and terms; the terms have become so common in fiction that it's probably impossible to pinpoint an exact source unless Col_Playdoh has a really fantastic memory).



THERE has been an infinite confusion of names to express one and the same thing.
The chaos of the ancients; the Zoroastrian sacred fire, or the Antusbyrum of the Parsees; the Hermes-fire; the Elmes-fire of the ancient Germans; the lightning of Cybele; the burning torch of Apollo; the flame on the altar of Pan; the inextinguishable fire in the temple on the Acropolis, and in that of Vesta; the fire-flame of Pluto's helm; the brilliant sparks on the hats of the Dioscuri, on the Gorgon head, the helm of Pallas, and the staff of Mercury; the [[pur asbeston]];the Egyptian Phtha, or Ra; the Grecian Zeus Cataibates (the descending);* the pentecostal fire-tongues; the burning bush of Moses; the pillar of fire of the Exodus, and the "burning lamp" of Abram; the eternal fire of the "bottomless pit"; the Delphic oracular vapors; the Sidereal light of the Rosicrucians; the AKASA of the Hindu adepts; the Astral light of Eliphas Levi; the nerve-aura and the fluid of the magnetists; the od of Reichenbach; the fire-globe, or meteor-cat of Babinet; the Psychod and ectenic force of Thury; the psychic force of Sergeant Cox and Mr. Crookes; the atmospheric magnetism of some naturalists; galvanism; and finally, electricity, are but various names for many different manifestations, or effects of the same mysterious, all-pervading cause -- the Greek Archeus, or [[Archaios]].
That's from the astral light chapter of Isis Unveiled, Madame Blavatsky's first (?) work. That should give you terminology to mine for game effect for a few weeks :) The whole thing can be found here.
 
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Norse mythology is filled with references to other realms while the "spirit realm" can be found in almost every culture.

Other worlds or realms is one of the most common of cultural beliefs along with a heavenly paradise, a realm of the dead, and a cataclysmic flood (or other natural event) that changed the world forever.
 

IIRC, planes of existence (that specific phrase) was used extensively in Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champions series, which was one of the inspirations for D&D.
 

Planes of Existence is New Age Occultism (of which Theosophy is a part) and takes bits from 'science', religion and philosophy to create its doctrines

One teaching is that each person is composed of three (sometimes more) body's - the Material which is of these world, the Ethereal (seen as the Aura and linkined to the Psychic realm) and the Astral (often called the Spirit). Each of these 'body's' are semi-indepedent and occupy a different 'plane/dimension/realm' of existence

It would seem that the Creator (Gygax et al) drew on this base and then expanded to create defined Planes where the game could take place
 

I suspect the Moorcock references is where DIRECT lineage would be ascribed to, but as to where Moorcock got his ideas, your guess is as good as mine...
 

Planes of existence come from science, philosophy and religion all, as well as popular fiction.

Think of Plato's realm of ideal forms, for instance, or Heaven and Hell, or alternate universes. All are planes of existence, and are sometimes referred to that way.

As others have pointed out, the Elric books are one of the biggest direct influences on DnD's take on the planes, but I think that comic books prolly played a part too (remember all the old-skool Dr. Strange comics, where he'd go through myriad dimensions on his way to whatever?)
 

I think that D&D takes the names for the various "Outer Planes" from a myriad of religious, philosophical, and mythological sources. I know that Bahamut (the god of all Good Dragons) is ancient Babylonyan, as is Tiamat. Hades is the name of the "nether regions of hell" that is mentioned in the Torah (the Jewish holy scriptures). Heaven is clearly a Christian doctrine (as well as other religions). The concept of the Nine Planes of Hell is clearly from Dante's "Inferno", although he may not have been the original source. Heck, even some of the names that Dante uses became names for some of the other lower planes (I think that Archeron and Abyss are mentioned in that poem).

The concepts of the "planes of existence" are buried deep within many religious and mythological sources that span centuries and cultures.

One neat thing that I found when I first started playing the game was how the original authors of the Monster Manual from first ed (which I can only assume were Gygax and Arneson) used the various names for Lucifer and created completely different demons and devils. Just from the top of my head, there is Baalzebub, Orcus, Baal, Mephistophales, and some others - which were just different names given to Satan by various writers and poets throughout the centuries. They essentially took the different names (which were clearly cultural in their generation) and applied different attributes and behaviors to what is clearly the same being in mythology (that of Lucifer). It was all rather fascinating to me. I think that the same approach applied to the names given for the various Planes of Existence (at least the Outer Ones).
 

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