Pathfinder 1E Is Spring Attack overpowered?

[Systole]

I'm a Pathfinder campaign, and the GM has stated that he's probably disallowing Spring Attack because it's overpowered and broken. I admit, I was a little disappointed because I had been building a character toward that, but mostly I was just surprised because I really don't see Spring Attack as being overpowered. Powerful, yes, but it's a third tier feat with a some prereq feats, and it seems to be on par with, say, Great Cleave.

Is the general consensus that Spring Attack is overpowered?

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[gamerprinter]

No its not broken at all. Consider that Spring Attack is a standard action which means you can only apply a normal single attack with it. Since its a standard action and other standard actions cannot be used concurrently with it, you can't combine a Smite, a Vital Strike, or really much else with it to make it broken. Its only offering you a standard single attack without incurring an Attack of Opportunity, that's all Spring Attack does.

And since those other feats of 3x that grant more than one attack in a Spring Attack do not exist in Pathfinder, its already 'nerfed' compared to 3x spring attack.

Depending on what you're attacking, I'd rather full attack for more opportunities to get a critical than to waste my time doing standard actions. Spring Attack used to be a 'go to' feat in 3x. Its much weaker, and therefore more balanced than Spring Attack 3x. Your DM seems not to have read Spring Attack and all its implications as it applies to Pathfinder.

Spring Attack still requires 2 other feats to qualify and those feats have been nerfed compared to 3x versions. So how could anyone think Spring Attack is broken - that's a silly notion.

GP

 

[Systole]

Thanks. You phrased it better than I've been able to. Spring Attack is a feat for light skirmishers, not untouchable killing machines -- and I'm explicitly trying to build a skirmisher.

On a side note, Spring Attack does work with Sneak Attack, correct?

 

[gamerprinter]

Edit: yes you can. Sneak Attack applies when your opponent is flanked or flatfooted, which he can be on a standard action by you. So yes.

GP

 

[sheadunne]

Spring attack is a full-round action, not a standard action. It allows you to move your speed (usually 30 unless you've managed to increase it) and make a single attack anytime during the movement, without provoking AoO from the target creature (other creatures can smack you around just fine if you happen to provoke AoO by moving near them).

Unless you have HiPS or a very high movement, it's never quite worth the feat expenditure and it is hardly overpowered or broken, quite the opposite.

Sneak Attack works just fine with spring attack since it's only real requirements are Flanking, Dex-less, or Flat-Footed.

 

[Kvantum]

Also of note is that it does not stack with Vital Strike... for some reason. I've never thought it was overpowered, if you devote all the necessary feats to be able to pull off the combo.

 

[sheadunne]

It does seem a little odd that it doesn't stack. It's not that huge of a difference and adds a little to Spring Attack.

 

[Tovec]

I've never found it overpowered. Annoying when a character builds towards it - sometimes, but never overpowered.

Ultimately explain how you feel to the DM, let the DM read this thread, but recognize its well within the DM's prerogative to ban a single feat if they feel it to be OP. I'm sorry I know it sucks but I got to side with the DM on this one. If you don't like it, don't play.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Also of note is that it does not stack with Vital Strike... for some reason. I've never thought it was overpowered, if you devote all the necessary feats to be able to pull off the combo.

There have been a number of comments on the Paizo Message Boards by staffers, James Jacobs for one, that vital strike can be used with spring attack.

Here James Jacobs says:

James Risner wrote:

To move, yes. Was the design goal to allow it during Move->Vital->Move say from Spring Attack?​

"I'd certainly let my players do that in games I run".

So yes, Vital Strike can stack with Spring Attack.

This does not make the feat "broken". Rules which encourage fighters to stand in the middle of the room and never move so that they can make a full attack? THAT is a broken rule, imo for the #1 reason which overrides all other considerations in roleplaying games: it leads to STATIC, BORING and UNFUN play.

We cover the use of Spring Attack as part of our Character Concept Workshop in Episode 013 of the podacast released a few days ago. The build in question, an Anti-Paladin/Rogue build shows you how an Anti-Paladin with a Bardiche can use Spring Attack to frightening effect on the battlemap. It may be that the OP's GM heard the podcast segment and was taking the opportunity to head his players off at the pass *shrug*. Not sure.

I do not agree that Spring Attack is a light skirmisher feat. I certainly do acknowledge that it tends to be used by those characters, but that's the fault of people who misappreciate the coolness that Spring Attack permits. It's not inherent to the feat itself.

Combine it with a reach weapon, and it can provide for some amazing possibilities at your table. Listen to the podcast CCW for "The Black Knight" for expansion upon the ways this feat and movement mechanics can be used in the game to great effect in order to add dynamic movement in combat to your game.

 

[Systole]

The character in question is a halfling bard/barbarian/rogue, so base movement is 30 then Expeditious Retreat for a total of 60. Next level (7th) I'll be looking at Expeditious Retreat -> Rage -> Spring Attack -> Flank -> Backstab -> scoot back behind the tank.

I don't have plans to get HiPS. Instead, I'm going to pick up Vanish from the APG next bard level.

Interestingly, this wasn't originally an attempt to build the Pathfinder equivalent of a Romulan Warbird. When we started at first level, I just assumed the character would be a straight rogue, but she evolved this way for story reasons. It's been interesting.